Does Allah exist?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Diwana, what is a bad question? Is a bad question questioning YOUR belief system? Your belief system is something you have accepted either because of your upbrining or if you have come across it on your own and studied it extensively. Other people may not have accepted Islam as easily as you have. For these people to try to educate themselves or clear up confusion is NOT a bad thing.

I don't understand why so many people humanize "God". Will he get angry if we question the teachings of the Quran? Sounds a bit ridiculous, no? And if we DO question the teachings, maybe it will show us a more clear view of why we're here on this earth (please don't say its a test). Each person who is born into a specific religion has the right to explore the religion before accepting it. Why not be educated before you accept something? It seems like common sense to me.

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that's because logically speaking that is the only possibility. Otherwise, it is infinite regression and that just logically not possible. By infinite regression, it means that we cannot trace down the beginning: there is no point of stop when everything started. This implies that there is no ultimate cause or the creator or the beginning of subsequent change. However, if there is no beginning cause then there cannot be subsequent change. By definition, if one posits change one must necessarily posits beginning cause or an end. Since there is change, it must necessarily follow that there was a beginning. In other words, the infinite regress must end. Hence, the infinite regress ends at the ultimate Creator of everything, the Lord of the world, Allah Exalted be He.

Why does the Creator of everything need a cause and thus must not be around from forever? What is the basis of your reasoning? We either must have been around forever or came from something which has been around forever.


please show it instead of attacking me with a straw man. When did I say that my arguments are scientific fact? Your mere absurd claims aren't going to prove anything unless you show that my arguments are "bogus assumptions". Do you base everything upon scientific facts? There is something called common sense and logic.


you perceive this way because your common sense has been bankrupted. another straw man, when did I say that Allah cannot be created? I said He is uncreated; there is difference between the two. Coming into existence or being created is an attribute of creation. To say "why can't we apply this to earth" doesn't only logically flawed, but also contradict scientifically facts. It is a fact that universe and everything residing it it had a beginning. If we had a beginning then we didn't come out of blue and that's why we ask questions about our existence and where did we come from. Unless you can logically show me that there are more possibilities than what I stated earlier then please feel free to do so. Otherwise, it would be best that you refute my arguments instead of throwing random claims.


really, and here you just shot in your own foot. You don't know where you come from but then on what basis do you say that my arguments are "bogus assumptions" and the Creator of all needs a cause just like his creation?


keep day dreaming; your illogical responses doesn't prove anything.


straw man; when did I say that you have EVERYTHING to learn? Your point would have any leg to stand on if you showed any attempt of sincerity and some common sense. Otherwise, it is typical emotional rant.

and Allah knows best

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Brother
You really are wasting your time. This guy is a JOKA with very sick mind… You can call IT a FITNA…

Read the thread Dancing & rishta he opened in Life and Relationships:

Don’t feed his perverted sick mind by responding.

RC

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Re: Does Allah exist?

Reality-Check, sorry I dont get the connection. What do my Life1 threads have to do with this thread of mine? Is that your proof that Allah exists?

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Sorry no bone for you from me...

Can't do what I asked brother AllahKaBanda to avoid.

;)

RC

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So your point is that the only possibility is that ALLAH has been around forever, there is no begining nor an end and there is no creator of Allah? Well then why cant the same apply for earth or universe? is it possible that the universe also has had no beginining and will not have end?


my friend, scientific facts are deeply based in logic and yes i try to base everything upon scientific facts.

you say Allah is uncreated? how do you back that up, please explain. Now coming to earth/universe existence. These days scientists claim the big bang theory. Where a minutte atom "burst" and gave rise to an endless existence of starts, planets. So where did that minute atom come from? So your claim that universe had a "begining" is technically incorrect, since all of this existence apparently came from that small atom. Again, this is a scinetific theory, who knows what the real deal is.

Yes, I called your statement that Allah need not be created as a bogus assumption. As i stated earlier in this post, please back this up.

And "Allah knows best" - you got that right my friend. I consider myself agnostic, so while I doubt Allah/God exists as defined in human religions (Islam, Christinaty Judaism etc) - I do believe there is a higer force and surely it knows best.

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Re: Does Allah exist?

Now when I started this thread I made speciifcally clear that I meant no mal-intent. I understand that religon is a very personal issue and one can be easily offended. I apologize if my statements have caused any harm. I just wanted to have a civil discussion over what my doubts were of Gods existence (be it the islamic god, hindu gods, jew god).

Again if anyone feels like I am just "wasting" their time - then please go ahead and do not participate in this discussion anymore.

The Hi/Bye Thread
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can u send me a link?

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Please read my post again, the answer is there.

Asking question is the first step to learning and I absolutely agree with bulk of your post.

My post said the question 'appears' mal intended and I asked OP for clarification.

He has given some clarification above however saying he did not mean to ask ONLY ALLAH's existence as described in Islam.

The question should be then do you believe in any supreme being?

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Re: Does Allah exist?

hey ppl! isnt this the exact debate that we as muslims are supposed to avoid? Do not question God's existence! Read the very first verse of Surah Baqara. allow me to paraphrase it : " This book is not to be doubted.....it is for those who believe in the unseen...." the key word here is 'unseen'

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Re: Does Allah exist?

^ doubting the book is not the same as asking this question. the book may contain the answer but then think why such books were needed in the first place? because the question existed

Timepass - July 2013
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Re: Does Allah exist?

wat a **** question is thi...

I request admin to please close the topic and the member who did this **** question..

Are we so dump now that we are doubting on Allah's existance. Naouzbillah. Astaghfirulla ?

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Re: Does Allah exist?

Guys, you're going about this the wrong way... he's not being blasphemous..... we should be putting him on the right path to discovery, but all you're doing is shooting him down....

An excerpt from an article by Zakir Naik, to put things in perspective:

"Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.

My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada *i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘*La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists) I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God."

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^ rightly said. But u cant prove God's existence on the philosophical lines being followed by the members here. questions like who created Allah or how come he lived forever..are simply not answerable. Had this been the case, the koran would definetly answer it. In fact Koran repeatedly urges man to look at the 'signs' of God in His creation around the world to acknowledge Him. Nowhere does He ask His creation to find out what or how He is, because if we are able to comprehend God, that makes Him finite

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The matter of fact is the emphasis on 'unseen'..now how the hell do u prove unseen?

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Peace Yes_Boii

I hope I can answer your concerns in a way that suits you. But not yet as I have to go somewhere. Sorry, inshaAllah I'll get back to you soon.

Mullah bashing and sub-continent's fiction
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That’s just :k:

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Re: Does Allah exist?

We think of Allah the way we as humans are. We think to ourselves that if we're being created, is it then not possible that Allah must have been created too?.. to this , the answer is simple. Whatever is being created is not worth worshiping, rather whoever created it ..is. Whoever created everything we see around, is worth praising and worshiping.

We think of Allah as our mind tells us to think about. Hindus try to make images of their God.. with the same eyes , nose,lips,ear, hands,legs etc... but they forget that if Gods are to look like human beings, what then is the need to ask from them? How can they be of any help?

Often times we think if Allah never had beginning nor end, why can we not think the same about the universe. This again is limited to our thinking. Humans apply the same kinds of thinking as they apply for themselves. Allah is someone beyond our imagination. Beginning nor ending is the concept very hard to understand for a human mind because we have always seen something being created and hence also saw it being destroyed/or end.. but Allah was the cause of the beginning of the universe, He alone will be the one to put an end to it..

Quran says that He is the cause of all the causes, His is the kingdom of heavens and the earth, all that is in the world glorifieshim. Do not be so arrogant as time is very short. Live by the name of Allah and pray that your soul is taken when you're in complete submission to the one whose all powerful,wise,gracious, the ever merciful , The Allah almighty.

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This is one of the reason why i kind of dont like Zakir's way of explaining. His reasoning is very childish as i personally think.

Here is why:

First of all, La ilaaha alone is not what makes kalma taiyabba. It is La ilaaha illallah which is. Similarly, just in Quran when it is said to NOT READ NAMAAZ, one can argue that this is written in Quran and hence no reason of reading the namaaz, however, the sentence is not completed until and unless you complete it as it says.. Do not read Namaaz under such and such circumstances. If one says Dont read namaaz, it doesnt make them half muslim because they're saying something from Quran..

La ilaaha is to make other followers of religion realize that there is NO OTHER GOD, and ilallah following it makes it clear that there is no God BUT Allah. Atheist on other hand say there is no God, it should not be taken as their agreement to Muslim's kalima taiyaaba.

Secondly, it is not the kalima taiyyaba which is the islamic creed but kalima shaahada , which is that i testify that theres none worthy of worship But Allah and Muhammad PBUH is His messenger.

There is no reason to believe that if atheist say there is no God, we as muslim take it as if He has become half muslim by testifying to the kalima taiyaba which says there is no God. No need to congratulate an atheist either, congratulate when he accepts the whole sentence of kalima taiyyaba.

Thirdly, i see no reason of his duty being half completed. His job still remains, which is to prove the existence of God. hence giving explanation to the full kalima taiyabba and not just on the second part of kalma.

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EXISTENCE OF GOD
by Belal Khalid

The existence of God looks like an obvious truth to the believers, but to the non-believers it is, as if covered with seven veils. I have gathered some points from every day logic and some from historical prospective to provide a base to prove existence of God to the non-believers. I understand that each point that follows could be a topic for discussion, but I have tried my best to put as much as possible in a limited space.

All RELIGIONS BELIEVE IN GOD

Its an undeniable fact that all the religions on this earth claim to be from GOD. Hadhrat Muhammad (SAW), Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Baba Nanak and every religious leader taught people to believe and worship GOD. Although all religions have slight differences in the attributes they ascribe to God, but all the religions hold the common view that there is a God who has created this universe. History tells us that even those ancient religions that no longer exist in this world, they also held the view of God, whether they were in ancient America, or in jungles of Africa or in England, or in Java or Sumatra, or in Japan and China or in Siberia or in India. It is an important point that what's the reason for this thought provoking unity among so varied religions? In the ancient times people were not linked together through any means of communication or transport, then how is it possible that people living in isolation thousands of mile away from each other, held the common view about the existence of God? Many of the lands were even not discovered at that time. Even now it is difficult for two persons to completely agree on any issue, then how come this universal unanimity regarding existence of God? All these facts lead us to the only possible conclusion that not only there is a living God but also that God has always manifested Himself through some means to his men to make them believe in Him. Historians agree that if there is such universal unanimity about any issue then there is no reason to disagree with it. Another fact worth noting is that there have been a small number of atheists all the times, this proves that the 'existence of God' is not related to any psychological need of human beings. In this world, one can lead ones life without acknowledging the existence of God, though he will be attempting to close his eyes to the very obvious and clear truth.

WHO ARE THOSE WHO CALL PEOPLE TOWARDS GOD?

If we look at the life of all those men, who have called other people towards God, we find a surprising common thing about all of them, that they were very pious and righteous men. They were the people who were respected in their nations. They were true people, who spent their lives to guide people to the right path. They persuaded people to shun oppressing others. They taught to look after the poor and needy. They fought all their life against the unjust rulers of the time. They were invariably opposed by the people in power at that time, although They were highly honoured and valued for the purity of their character, even by those who later, on the announcement of their claims, became their enemies. It is inconceivable that those who did not lie about men, began suddenly to lie about God. They were the people whose lives were exemplary for others. Whether it is Indian Krishna, or Irani Zoroaster or Egyptian Moses, or Israelite Christ or Punjabi Baba Nanak, or Leader of the righteous Muhammad (SAW) who was given the title of Trustworthy by his nation from his very youth and who challenged his nation that he had led all of his life among them and Could they point out to any single lie or felony in his life? So all these righteous persons who came to this world at different times and places, all of them say one thing in common... "There is a GOD.... There is a GOD...." Not only they claimed that there is a God but also they claimed that He talked to them.

One may find great philosophers or scholars in the world who have done great works, but their work cannot be compared to the work of those righteous persons. Actually if we study the lives of those philosophers we find that no great deeds compared to their lofty sayings. Why is it that these great philosophers were not able to exhibit that righteousness which was shown by people from GOD? The people whose names I have mentioned above, all of them faced great hardships in the life due to their teachings but nothing could lead them astray from the true path. Their killings were planned, they were exiled from their homes and they were boycotted, but they never gave up their beliefs. Why did not they tell lie and relieve themselves from those hardships that were imposed on them just because of their true belief in God. Their lack of interest in material desires proves it that they were selfless people. When such truthful and trustworthy people are saying it in unison, that they have met with God, they have listened His voice and they have experienced his manifestations, then it really leaves us with no doubt. Even in this material world the people whom we know that they are habitual liars, when they go to a court and speak something under an oath, they are believed, then why don't we believe in those righteous persons?

EVEN DISBELIEVERS IN THEIR HEART ARE AFRAID OF GOD

Human nature in itself provides us with a strong inclination towards a belief in God. There are certain sins which human nature doesn't like to get involved in. For instance, relationship with Mother, sister and daughters, uncleanliness owing to certain discharges from body. These are certain things which even a atheist will not like to do. But if there is no fear of a super being, Why not to lie all the times?, why not to steal and commit adultery? What are the reasons that keep them away from these evils? If they do not feel the power of some unseen, then they should do whatever pleases them. Then truth and lie and justice and oppression should be all the same for them. Its only God's fear that is ruling on their hearts. Although their mind does not acknowledge the existence of God but the human nature created by God cannot defy it. So even an atheist at heart holds some view about God and judgment day. While in distress, everybody pray to a super-Being for relief. Why so, if they don't believe in that super-being, whom we call God?

EVERY THING IN THIS UNIVERSE HAS A CREATOR

If we deeply study this universe, we see that every thing culminates in a Creator. He is the ultimate and every thing is working under his guidance. If we look at different stages of human birth and growth, we see that as we go backward, we find we are moving towards weaker and weaker stage. Eventually we shall find that the growth starts from a clot of clinging substance. So human beings who themselves start from such a weak stage, how can they be their own creator. So it proves without any doubt that human beings are not their own creator. We see that if we start studying the birth process minutely, ultimately we will find ourselves at the limit of human knowledge. At that stage, all the worldly knowledges will reach their limit and will be totally exhausted about what had actually happened? So that is a stage where divine hand is working. Every scientist have to believe that all the processes of this universe ultimately reaches a point where their knowledge becomes inadequate or insufficient to describe them. Once somebody asked a bedouin that what proof does he has about the existence of God. He replied that if he saw excrement of a camel in the middle of a jungle, he could tell that a camel had passed through that jungle. Then after seeing so many different creatures in this universe, couldn't he tell that there is some creator of them?

IS THIS UNIVERSE CREATED JUST BY CHANCE?

Some of the people believe that this universe was created just by chance and they also try to prove it through science. But God says that all those things that happens just by chance, they don't have such an order in them. Different colors are used together to make a picture. If we just throw the paints on a paper, will they ever make a picture? Houses are made of bricks, but if we just throw the bricks in a pile, will they form a house? It is true that sometimes some of the things are made by chance, but a close analysis of the universe clearly refutes this 'by chance' theory. All right, for a moment, if we believe that matter was created by chance, and this world also came into being by chance, I will ask the readers to study deeply the creation of human beings, Is it possible that such a perfect being was created by chance? See the stars, the planets, sun etc. and then the creation of day and night. Every thing just fits so nicely in a finely woven net, doesn't that orderliness speaks of a powerful creator?

Even in this world we can easily judge the power and wisdom of a creator of anything by closely examining his creation. A good picture is painted by an excellent painter, a powerful computer is made by an intelligent team of researchers. Looking at the orderliness of any things tells us that how intelligent its creator is. God has given to every being an appropriate body and shape, so that it can sustain itself. God kept the food for trees in earth, therefore he gave roots to the trees, so that they can get their food. God made flesh as food for tiger, therefore He gave strong nails and teeth to the tiger, so that it can kill its prey and eat it. God made grass as food for horses and camels, therefore He gave them long neck, so they can graze it. God created lungs for human beings, therefore He also created air, so that they can breath. Human beings depend on water, so God created Clouds, so that they can take water to them. Such an enormous and perfect order could never have been created just by chance? Only a super-being could do it.

*TRUE BELIEVERS ARE ALWAYS EXALTED ON OTHERS *

God said that he would always exalt His true believers on others. True believers are always triumphant on non believers, they always overcome them. If there is no God then how are they successful.All the founders of different religions were men of weak means. When Moses called Pharaoh towards God, Pharaoh replied that which God was he talking about? "I am GOD" So God ruined Pharaoh, and made Moses as the King of that time. Incidence of Pharaoh has become an example for this world and also for the next world. Same happened with other prophets. Same happened with Muhammad(SAW). All of his enemies were defeated. All those nations of that time, who opposed him were conquered by him or his followers. The founders of religions did not posses those powers and means which ordinarily make for successful leadership. Yet it is inconceivable that an innocent person of ordinary accomplishments, as soon as he begins to lie about God, should come to have such tremendous powers that his teachings dominate all other teachings current in his time. Such a development is impossible without the help of a powerful God. Why were their prophecies and their promises fulfilled? No doubt there have been others, generals and dictators, who have attained to apparently similar success. But it never lasts for long, but the success which is foretold, which is attributed to God from the beginning, success on which is staked the Prophet's whole moral reputation and which is achieved in spite of the tough opposition endures for ever.

GOD LISTENS TO THE PRAYERS

God has always listened to the prayers of the righteous people of all the times. A non believer may say that it might have been by chance that those incidents happened that were prayed for. But the accepted prayers are different from the other ones. God not only listens to the prayers of his chosen one, but also He informs them about their acceptance. Many prophets have claimed about a number of things, and all those claims had been fulfilled, e.g their ultimate success is always foretold when apparently they were very weak and oppressed, but all of them succeeded ultimately.

REVELATION

It has always been God's practice to communicate to people of every age. Not only He talks to the chosen ones (Prophets) but also to other righteous people and sometime even to very mean and filthy people, just to show his manifestations. Sometimes, God foretells people news about future and sometimes also about next world. Many times He has revealed news about the events, that are to happen hundreds of year later. God told in Quran some fourteen hundred years ago about the great progress of Christians, which was to occur sometimes later. It was foretold that a time will come when camels would be no longer used. Even it was told that the transportation that will be used in future would work with fire. It was foretold that a time will come when people would die in large numbers by earthquakes, storms and rains, and wars would also bring large number of fatalities. And such large scale destruction would have never happened before on this earth. Islam is a religion, about which God has said, that there will be people in every century, with whom God would communicate, and this has come true. How it can all happen by chance?

UNIVERSE IS NOT FROM EVER

Some atheists claim that this universe is in existence from ever and it will last for ever. If this universe is in existence from ever, then it must have infinite source of power and energy, but we see that no material thing is infinite in this universe. The temperature of Sun is falling down, even the earth is cooling off. All the sources of energy in this universe are being consumed up and exhausting. So the world is approaching to its end as was prophesied by all the religions. It proves that the universe came into being a finite time ago and it also has a definite end. We know from our whole life's experience, that if we consider any process, there are only two possibilities, that a process is either started by some human beings, or it might be a result of some other process. If we move back in this tree of processes which are a result of some other process, ultimately we shall come across a process, which could not be attributed to any other process. At that place, we are left with no other argument, except to believe that it was started by some Super being. We refer to that super being as 'GOD', some atheists call this Super Being by the name of 'nature'. Actually just giving a different name to this Super Being really does not make much difference, they believe in GOD, and all they need is just a little fine tuning.

PRAYER FOR GOD's MANIFESTATION

All the non believers should think that if there is a God then they will be in deep trouble on the day of Reckoning and in the next world. So if anybody is interested in getting the true knowledge about God, then he should pray earnestly that if there is a God with infinite powers as the people claim then may GOD manifest Himself on him. May God show him the right path. If anybody does such prayers earnestly for 40 days, then we believe, whatever his origin, religion and country is, God will show him the true path and he will have no doubt about the existence of God.