Do you support the Army Operation in the Tribal areas
(As requested by Zakk)
i’m torn b/c i’m a diehard patriot and support the pak army specially the jawans who are risking their lives…
but
NO
i can not support this operation b/c i can never condone a muslim killing another muslim brother … no matter what natioanality … muslims are all one ummah…
the kaafirs are using us and we are allowing ourselves to be used
astaghfirullah 
our leaders should be ashamed that they are allowing this to happen on our soil
the kafirs don't like the economic progress that's happenning in pakistan, they dont like our atomic bomb and in fact they don't like pakistan...
they want to create hatred for pak army in the hearts of the pakhtoons.
then they'll get india and afghanistan (where they have their puppet govt) involved and incite the pakhtoons to raise their voices for pakhtoonistan.
they want to deccelerate our economic progress, cause unrest in the country and [khudanakhasta] break up our country...but inshallah their evil designs will be foiled and that's never gona happen. Pak sarzameen shaad baad...
Yes, as the other option will be to allow US troops in Pakistan. I will be fine with them cleaning up the mess themselves but at the same time they will have less regard for the Pakistani tribes, and their presence might cause some instability, so it's better we do it ourselves.
Not to mention, you can’t have a part of country recognized as yours which does not uphold the laws of the country in the 21st century. Maybe now the tribal areas will make some progress.
I voted no..it’s ridiculous to think this oepration ahs anything to do with freeing women and opening up FATA.. that’s the same as the American argument for intervening in Iraq.
I think the backlash of this operation will be seen for years. Consider the comments by Musharrafs hand picked corp commander about the local Tribe in Waziristan.
“I am determined to make sure I punish this Yargul Kheil tribe and make an example for the whole of South Waziristan,” he said. “I am going to wipe it out, and I am going to flush them out.”](http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4613293&pageNumber=1)
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
**Yes, as the other option will be to allow US troops in Pakistan. I will be fine with them cleaning up the mess themselves but at the same time they will have less regard for the Pakistani tribes, and their presence might cause some instability, so it's better we do it ourselves.
Not to mention, you can’t have a part of country recognized as yours which does not uphold the laws of the country in the 21st century. Maybe now the tribal areas will make some progress. **
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Same here.
FATA is an integral part of Pakistan, not a foreign country that the Pak army is illegally invading. The fact that the tribal elders are now sueing for peace, shows that they recognise this fact and will finally adhere to the writ of the Pakistani state.
After this operation is concluded the government must fully integrate FATA into the Pakistani polity, and pump massive amounts of development funds in to uplift the area. I know and trust this will be done.
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*Originally posted by Zakk: *
I voted no..it's ridiculous to think this oepration ahs anything to do with freeing women and opening up FATA.. that's the same as the American argument for intervening in Iraq.
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I agree Zakk it's not about freeing women it's about preserving Pakistan and not allowing our country to become the scapegoat for a Saudi exile like Afghanistan did.
Punjabi rural villages are pretty backwards too but we don't ban television or prevent cable access like the MMA led NWFP.
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*Originally posted by irem: *
the kaafirs are using us and we are allowing ourselves to be used
astaghfirullah our leaders should be ashamed that they are allowing this to happen on our soil
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What will you say if the "kaffirs" did it themselves uninvited from the other side of the border? Whats more shameful? Cleaning up your own backyard or letting someone else point it to you and doing it for you? And trust me, the "kaffirs" dont need our permission to clean our own house either.
Remember carpet bombing in tora bora?
Amazing, just amazing. This guy is following the proud footsteps of tikka khan, nasrullah babar and ziaul haq among others in the pak army. What is it about the pak army that attracts these meglomaniacs?
I voted no, not because I think terrorists should be given a free hand, but because I wouldn’t trust the pak army with any such operation considering it’s history of brutality.
I didn’t support opertion “clean-up” and I don’t support this. No matter who the victims are.
I don’t think he was refering to innocent people, it could be a media spin.
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/Mar-2004/23/main/top4.asp
He rejected the impression that all the tribesmen were against the anti-terror drive, and said only some “delinquent elements” of one sub-tribe were opposing the operation, whereas the rest of tribesmen welcomed the army to cleanse the tribal areas of terrorists.<<<
Good work Abdali. Some people should be careful in checking their sources, before defaming the Pakistani army, based on spin and statements taken out of context.
Xtreme: The MMA has been largely irrelevant to the tribal areas the Tribal areas have always been under direct control of Islamabad and the Army. As fara s the writ of the state is concerned ..there are plenty of places in Pakistan where the government has next to no writ.. you don't see the Army going into those places.
That reminds me what is the legal status of this whole operation? Has it been improved by either house of Parliament?
malik: I think Reuters is a fairly credible news source.
Please, does that mean it always tells the truth, or be mistaken in some of it’s reporting from time to time? Only last year it was revealed what a load of lies a reporter in the prestigious New York Times was printing. Plus, only last week another major American paper (USA Today) found that one its reporters had been reporting lie after lie.
Ex-USA TODAY reporter faked major stories](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More)
The point is that in times like these, especially when emotions are running high we have to be very, very careful in checking such blatant statements, lest it benefit our enemies. I am sure that this latest lie has now done the rounds, and will find itself in other papers as well, as controversy even based on lied, sells.
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*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Xtreme: The MMA has been largely irrelevant to the tribal area...
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Not entirely correct. The MMA won 7 of the 12 MNA's that the FATA region sends to the National Assembly in Islamabad, so it has more political support than other parties. Yet it's leaders are playing a double game of vocal protests against the military operation, while at the same time being out of the country at this supposedly crucial time. Obviously it has dumped it's erstwhile Al Qaida/Taliban friends, and is more interested in preserving it's large provincial power bases in Peshawar and Quetta? There is some sign of political maturity there, that I have long predicted would happen, but needless to say they can't openly oppose their former students quite yet.
The same can be said of the other political parties, who are I am sure quietly egging on the this operation, especially the secular PPP, whatever their public bombasity. :)
The same was true during operations in karachi. Most of pakistan was silent over the human rights abuses and killings by the army.
Like I had said in another thread, pakistanis have the tendencey to remain quiet and accept whatever the rulers tell them, a long as they themselves are not the ones suffering.
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*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Please, does that mean it always tells the truth, or be mistaken in some of it's reporting from time to time? Only last year it was revealed what a load of lies a reporter in the prestigious New York Times was printing. Plus, only last week another major American paper (USA Today) found that one its reporters had been reporting lie after lie.
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Maybe so malik, but lets not forget the attitude of army towards bengali and more recently towards urdu speaking people in their operation. It does nto take much for the corps commander to go on a power trip with all the media spotlight.
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Maybe so malik, but lets not forget the attitude of army towards bengali and more recently towards urdu speaking people in their operation. It does nto take much for the corps commander to go on a power trip with all the media spotlight.
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You want a list of MQM terrorism and kartoots just ask instead of BSing. What do you think of bhutto the only civilian marshlaw administrator, who declared Ahmedis kafirs and refused to give bengalis their rights... I can fill volumes, just try.
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
The same was true during operations in karachi. Most of pakistan was silent over the human rights abuses and killings by the army.
Like I had said in another thread, pakistanis have the tendencey to remain quiet and accept whatever the rulers tell them, a long as they themselves are not the ones suffering.
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No, that is not entirely correct. When President Leghari dismissed Benazir Bhutto's government he specifically mentioned the human rights abuses and extra-judicial killlings in Karachi by the Rangers. Let's not forget the Rangers were under the command of the then interior minister Naseerullah Babar, not the COAS, and hence the political government was directing the operations not the military as such. I was in Karachi during the most violent days in summer 1995, when 40 to 50 or more people were being killed daily. One could barely leave our homes to go anywhere, as firing seemed to be everywhere, especially in the Urdu-speaking area we lived in. I know what grave wrongs were done then, especially to the urdu-speaking community, and the vilification of that community by the essentially pro-Sindhi government of BB.
I remember when it was reported that she called Mohajirs "people who hid like rats", but later said she was only referring to the MQM terrorists, not the whole community. One was prepapred to believe her statement, as her Urdu is not exactly the best, and she does not communicate well in it. Also, it was reported by many at the time that Naserullah Babar would personally be on hand to inspect the bodies of dead terrorists, though sometimes when this was supposed to have happened when he was not even in Karachi. So we must be careful of believing all news stories we hear, especially when a lot is based on rumours and out of context statements.
We must also be careful to label a particular operation as being directed by one community against another community, as is being said some in regards to FATA. In Karachi some Urdu-speakers saw it as a combined Sindhi-Pashtun operation against the community i.e. Sindhi-led government and Pashtun soldiers, but it was more a political score settling between the PPP and MQM, rather than any ethnic operation.
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*Originally posted by Abdali: *
You want a list of MQM terrorism and kartoots just ask instead of BSing. What do you think of bhutto the only civilian marshlaw administrator, who declared Ahmedis kafirs and refused to give bengalis their rights... I can fill volumes, just try.
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Whatever terrorists or criminals were in mqm were largely the result of pakistan army terror tactics and ISI's creation of the haqiqi terrorist faction. And anyway, most of them were killed or captured, unlike the pakistani army, police, and rangers terrorists who are still on the loose in pakistan and regarded as heroes. Even now, the butcher of karachi, nasrullah babr is hiding in tribal areas. Why is he not in jail? Tells me a lot about lack of justice in pakistan. So keep your lsit to yourself, I have my own for pak army.
What gave the idea I supported Bhutto's wrongs? Why do you support army's wrongs so blindly and why are you so hypocritical with when pakistan is doing the same thing, or worse then what america is doing in afghanistan?
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*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Whatever terrorists or criminals were in mqm were largely the result of pakistan army terror tactics and ISI's creation of the haqiqi terrorist faction. And anyway, most of them were killed or captured, unlike the pakistani army, police, and rangers terrorists who are still on the loose in pakistan and regarded as heroes. Even now, the butcher of karachi, nasrullah babr is hiding in tribal areas. Why is he not in jail? Tells me a lot about lack of justice in pakistan. So keep your lsit to yourself, I have my own for pak army.
What gave the idea I supported Bhutto's wrongs? Why do you support army's wrongs so blindly and why are you so hypocritical with when pakistan is doing the same thing, or worse then what america is doing in afghanistan?
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Oh really, how very strange my family has always lived in Karach... there is no batha collection or killings like there use to be what happened, MQM thugs got killed or khakis don't exist any more? tell us!!!!!!!!!!. Why is MQM thug hiding in London if he has the public support no one can touch the scum, all he has to do is to stake his claim. Why are you hiding behind the khakis for the kartoots of leaders like bhuttio, bud and ganja, let me tell you why because your type cannot milk the cow when khaki run the show and that hurts. Next you will be telling me khakis opened bank accounts in switzerland and put budnazars label on it.