Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Society Religion & Philosophy
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…or upon the completion sunrise?

I’m hearing some debate.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

the end of eating is the time of fajar (i.e good half an hour or more before sunrise).....

the Shia end the eating even before the fajar time.....

i never heard any debate over this..

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

ramadhan starts when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon that translates about **90 minutes before the sunrise*. it is recommended to eat saHrii as late as possible and iftaar *3 minutes after the actual sunset. **

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Well, currently here Fajr starts at 4:45 and sunris is after 6. That's more than half an hour.

I hadn't either, until recently.

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half an hour was like my rough estimate...............

it is Fajar time.....has always been........i don't know how people keep coming up with these things..

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

This.

I have never heard of any debate over this. From any religious sect or group.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

sahoor time over when Fajar time/Azan start.

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I guess the ddebate might be the calcuation of Fajr.

Or maybe as fasts become long in the summer. Is there some sort of allowance?

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Beginning of fajr. Of which there is no fixed time here either! Some timetables have it as 2:30, other's 4:10, depending on which angle they use.

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**YES, wherever there is very lil difference between day and night...i'm going to Churchill, Manitoba, Canada where sunset is at 1 am and sunrise at 2:30 am so i asked my imam. he said that you have to follow the nearest city where the day and night difference is significant...in this case it would be Winnipeg...if i fast during my trip, i've to start fasting at 4:30 am [in churchill the sun would be like 2/3 across the sky] and break fast at 9 pm when it would still be a bright day.

most places people live, it's too bad we have to follow actual sunset and sunrise :) there is no allowance for long days.**

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

This is what I thought too, guys. Unfortunately the disagreement is between family members, making things uncomfortable.

stoppit, are you in England? I thought maybe the communities there have developed a different system/interpretation.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

If you go to the Islamic Finder website and look at all the available juristic methods available, the time for Fajr for my city can range anywhere between 3:45 and 4:45 am. To keep things simple, I follow the timings of my nearest Masjid where I'll be offering my salah.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Peace Sahar02

In the Summer months locations of latitudes that are more than 48 degrees from the equator north or south have problems with the phenomena required to determine prayer times ... As a result the prayer times for 'isha and hence fajr are calculated and not determined by observation - because observation is not possible in some months.

However in the months where observation is possible then there is no calculation allowed and shar'i adherence is required.

There is ikhtilaf between two main school about when 'isha starts this they say is either when the sun reaches 15 degrees below the horizon or when then sun goes further to 18 degrees below the horizon (in actual fact they debate is about shafq al ahmar and shafq al abyad - which loosely correspond to those degrees) ... 15 degrees coincides with what is called civil twilight and 18 degrees is what is called astronomical twilight ... twlight means a time of day when the sunlight is not full ... Astronomical twilight is the point when no light from the sun affects the light in the sky this point takes place at 17.6 degrees which is often approximated to 18 degrees.

Now fajr start is also related to this issue - however when it comes to fasting there is no ikhtilaf in the major schools and people who have been following 15 degrees for fajr start must stop eating well before that time which is actually nearer the 18 degree start time for fajr ...

Those who already follow 18 degree for fajr will not find it too much of a change ... the time difference between the ceasing of eating is agreed in some schools to be about 10 minutes before the shar'i start time of fajr NOT the calculated time ... but the actual start time ... since the start of fajr is now possible in many locations people must follow actual times for sahur. People who are doing fajr later i.e. following 15 degrees need to ensure that they stop eating 10 minutes before the 18 degree times ...

The responses earlier about the time difference from sunrise being approx 30 mins are wrong ... the pattern of time difference is actually sinusoidal and it can't be estimated for those regions that we are concerned with ... If there is any more help required on this I'll be happy to answer your questions ...

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Thanks for all the info, psyah! Some people (not in the Middle East) were saying, "The Makkah fast is from 6am-7pm" and they are following that. That seems to be from sunrise (not fajr) to maghrib. Is it done differently in the ME?

I think the other responses were just giving an estimate. 30-90min.

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Peace Sahar02

Ah ... I think the reason for that might be "live" TV - it messes up everything ... If you have relatives in the middle east in a location East of Makkah then if they watch Makkah broadcast then it may be to them the time is already approaching sunrise ... Otherwise I can't see where the confusion might be .... But I'm quite sure Makkah do not do it at sunrise ...

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exactly ..

I suggest .. go with local mosque ..

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:eek: Thank God i am not the only one who has never heard anything like this before :hypo:.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

No, they are in Europe.

I think the idea is that that the spirit of the fast is lost if they become too hard or unbearable, and that modern-day Muslims have made it too hard to fast during these months by so strictly setting Fajr time so far ahead of sunrise.

Personally, I feel there is so much more I could do to be an observant Muslim, these fasts are not that bad, so far Alhamdullallah.

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Some people have this idea that the harder your ebadat/worship is , the more reward you will get.

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^ Yeah. I just don't understand where this has come from. They are otherwise very religiously observant. I don't want to judge as I am certainly not the perfect Muslim. I guess I just wanted to see if there's any basis for this practice. So far I don't see anything.

To me the Quranic verse describing the beginning of the fast is very clearly referring to the first light of dawn, not full sunrise. It's hard to argue with that.