Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Peace Sahar02

The reading of fajr can be done anytime from first light until just before sunrise ... however the starting of the fast must be done before the white thread of dawn ... This is only a difficulty because we are living in locations where the shari' times do not occur.

In Summer times our fasts last upto 19 hours long and we complain but in winter our fast are only 10 hours or so long and you don't hear us complain then ... It just takes about 16 years to get that difference and every 32 years we got people going over the same complaints ... In places more central to the equator the fasts don't alter much every year they are approximately 14 hours long ...

A secret in the spiritual world of Islam is to simply accept our fate ... not to find trouble with the injunctions set upon by the One God Who Loves us ... the thought of Him Watching over us should console any fears and give us contentment in His decisions for us. Doing this and letting go of our ill-conceived psychological hurdles will actually make things a lot easier to handle ... They say mind over matter ... It is simply that ... instead of asking how to make things easier - or by suggesting Islam should be easy only and not difficult is a symptom of not fully submitting to Allah (SWT) ... If we let go there is a lot of hikmah in that and you will find a strength inshaAllah that you never knew you had ...

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

It is good to follow local mosque. We follow local mosque. :)

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Growing up I always used to hear that Azaan for Fajr is your cue to stop eating for sahar. Then all of a sudden , in Karachi our local masjid started making announcement like this "Hazaat sahri ka waqt khatam ho gaya hay." ( Sahri time is over) Then they used to make azaan after 5 or 10 minutes do not remember exact difference anymore.
So now I am following the chart from local masjid here in US for fajr start time and I stop eating 5 minutes before fajr time as a safety measure.
In their chart they have Iqama time which is about 25 minutes later than the fajr start time that is the time when they actually pray fajr namaz.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

I got a little more info on this: Apparently the thought is that in the ME and other Muslim countries, life caters to those fasting, and people are aware of the struggles and accommodate. In the West that is not the case, and so some scholars have developed an amended version. They pick one place to follow, and use the sunrise time rather than the fajr time.

I haven't seen any actual writing on this.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

I always preface my comments by saying that I am NOT a scholar, but in the Shia fiqh, we eat until imsak which is about 5-10 minutes before faj'r (we follow the times on the calendar).

The reasoning is that calculating the exact time for faj'r is not possible and it is best to stop eating a few minutes earlier rather than risk eating past faj'r and therefore break your fast.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Yep better safe than sorry . Allah knows the intentions and will deal with us all accordingly.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

I never heard any debate but I did get confused once, because of the time difference between fajr and sunrise...someone explained it to me that its only called "sunrise" to make it easier to explain to non-Muslims.....like fasting from sunrise to sunset.

in any case, its fajar to maghrib....thats what i've always followed

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

At my Place the Sunrise is 5:50 am and Dusk at 9:05pm ..... yet fajr Time is given at 4:20am as dawn begins around 4:30 ..... and therefore the fasting periods goes from 4:15am - 9:05pm

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Peace Sahar02

I don't know a single establishment, country or otherwise that do sahur at sunrise there is some sort of mistake that people are propagating ...

There are a number of methods for determining fajr start time - note - FAJR start time - when the shari' (phenomenon of first light) does not exist ... i.e. when the sun does not decline below 18 degrees from Maghrib through to sunrise ... in such case neither 'isha nor fajr are "real" but they need to be "calculated" ... the methods acceptable are:

Aqrab-al-balad - nearest city where the phenomenon does occur
Thulth-ul-layl - Night in three parts
Saba-ul-layl - night in seven parts
And The last real time - the Arabic name for this I have forgotten ...

Without going in to any details here ... there is difference of opinion on 'isha start and difference of opinion on fajr start ... however there is NO DIFFERENCE of opinion of fasting start ... which is supposed to be done before Fajr and as a result there is no dispensation allowed for it ... so where the shari' start of fajr does not exist then we are obliged to used to strictest interpretation for fasting start ... which is the last recorded real time ... Say on May 20th through to July 10th the sun never goes below 18 degrees then regardless of the different views that 'isha starts on shafq ul ahmer or shafq ul abyad the fact that sayam starts before the white thread which is unanimously taken as 18 degrees then May 20th through to 10th July has to be done without calculation based on the last observed real time ... until a point afterwards when the real time starts to occur again ...

So as in this case the fasting period is in August the days for some latitudes are very long and even though there may be dispensation allowed for prayer there is not the same level allowed for sayam (roza) start.

Now ... when it comes to sunrise I have no idea who has issued this permission but it surely is not from the consensus of the scholars ... and I don't even know who is actually doing this anyway. That I feel you need to ask the ones who are doing it this way to justify.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Im finding this confusing too...so Im in UK...

so looking at two diff websites for slough it says the following:
1st website:
Fajr is at 4.14 and sunrise is at 5.28..So does this mean you have to stop eating 30 mins before fajr? I would think u can eat up until like 4.12

2nd website:
First light of dawn is at 2.40 and sunrise is at 5.25-This seems completely wrong to me coz its not bright at that time!!

My husband says that you can eat up until the light of sunrise...in the old days people used to eat about 30 mins before fajr time because they used to go mosque to pray and so by the time they would come back fajr time would be over...Allah paak only knows if thats true or not...but thats what hes heard..

Its so confusing....!!

It should be pretty simple to follow but I think everyone just ends up confusing each other...so like the radio and TV say fast starts at like 3:38....who to follow? I think local mosque has some crazy time of 3:15....which sounds wrong coz its 1hr before fajr time??

Thanks in advance

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Thank you for the detailed response, psyah. Yes, we are continuing as we always do, by stopping at fajr time. I don't want to create unnecessary tension, so I don't bring it up with the people who are doing it the other way. They know what the rest of us are doing and why. If they feel what they are doing is right, I don't think there's anything I can do to change that. Allah knows best.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr


They are in the UK too.

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Re: Do you start the fast at the beginning of Fajr

Peace TabuB

I'll explain this for you in the best way I can ... from the way you posted I can see where the problems are ...

1) Imsak = First Light - Also called the "False Dawn" - white thread of dawn - light goes vertically upwards
2) Subh Saadiq = "True Dawn" - light spills over the horizon ...
3) TulootuShams or Ashrooq' = "Sunrise"

Now Fajr Starts at Subh Saadiq - however people disagree about when Subh Saadiq happens relative to the position of the sun ... some say 15 degrees below ... but I don't agree with this ... it is more like 17 degrees below ...

Imsak happens before Subh Saadiq and some say this happens at 17.5 degrees and this generally true but to exact it is 17.8 degrees below ...

Because of one hadith which says that Sahur ends when Fajr starts some people say that Subh Saadiq is also when we stop eating ... but other hadith and scholars say otherwise - they say that Sahur is related to a time earlier ... which is at False Dawn - Or Imsak ... Generally the observation from first light to second light takes normally between 5 - 15 minutes ... (but only if you consider second light to be 17 degrees and not 15 degrees)

Some translations are saying "the light of sunrise" - this is a mistranslation - it should be "the light of dawn" sunrise is when the sun is already above the horizon ... and fajr is qaza already at sunrise. So how can we be allowed to eat during fajr time until sunrise?

Further problems are raised when Subh Saadiq never happens or due to the longer days the sun takes longer to come up and hence the time difference between Subh Saadiq and Imsak will also be more pronounced ...