Assalaamu 'alaikum,
Can you consider yourself to be a true Pakistani if you do not practice Islaam? After all, when Pakistan was born, Muhammad Ali Jinnah did not strive to preserve cultural values, but rather religious values and morals. Islaam and Muslims were the whole reason why Pakistan was created in 1947.
What do you say? All comments welcome.
Wassalaam
kindest regards
hasnain u first have to be a good insaan to be a true member to ur family, community, society, culture, tradition, and country..............
[This message has been edited by nadia21 (edited May 25, 1999).]
Salaam
Hasnain jee
Pakistans to ghar ki tarah hai, jo ise jitna apna samjhe ga utna us ka hoga. Aik Qadyaani, hindu...bhi true pakistani ho saqte hain. Pakistan ko banane aik wajah Islam ki pairwi ki azaadi bhi thi.
Yes do I consider myself as a true pakistani, eventhough I'm not that good in practicing Islam.
W'salaam
Saba
Hey Guys,
If that was the case then i'm sure many Pakistanis would feel out of place. If i was born in Pakistan, i would call myself Pakistani for reasons of origin.
nadia21
what does 'insaan' mean?
bye
john ji insaan means "humanbeing" i guess or my urdu has really gone crazy ........
regarding quaideazam ji well ppl this isnot my opnion so dont bash me with ur comments i am just going to state something i heard in a discussion ......well i thought always that jinnah was a superhero until i heard in one place and they were paks discussing that all jinnah ji wanted was his name thats why he did so much of a big propaganda ....he had no interest with the origin of pakistan.........
hey i was confused is that true .........
once again dont bash me with ur comments i just stated what i heard i just want ur comments
Salaam
Nadia21 woh suna hoga aap ne 'Jitne munh utni baatein', aap ka dil aur zameer jis baat ko behter taur pe accept kerta hai, aap use hi sach manein...waise Qaid ki interest koi bhi rahi hooN, hammein to aazaadi mil gai na, hamare liye to itna hi kafi hai, aur Allah SWT is ke liye un ki maghfir farmae amen.
Wiase history books aur khud Qaid pe likhi gai books paRh ke dekkhein shayed aap behter taur pe logon ki baatooN ko judge ker saqein :)
W'salaam
Saba
aray sabah ji aap phir like i said i didnt state the comment it was stated by someone else ...........so dont bash me with ur comments .........plus really i am not interested in history ........as far as azadi goes .......i am still pondering about that ........seeing the current state of karachi these days makes me shudder.......so many lives destroyed for nothing ....how sad ...i dont know how ppl living in karachi survive with such violence happening....any way to all the karachiittes i do think ur all very brave .......
Salaam,
Thanks for your responses.
Saba jee,
Interesting analysis ... as always.
John,
Don't worry, you're almost one of us.
nadia21 jee,
Aap sahee ka raheen hain, paley insaaniat zaroori hai.
With regards to what you said about Muhammad Ali Jinnah sahab, i have also heard these things. However, depending on which history books and what people you turn to you will always get personal impressions and views thrown in. I personally don't believe he did it for his own interests. But then again i'm also bias because i appreciate Pakistan and am happy to be Pakistani.
As sabah jee said, one thing is for sure, humei azaadi milhee.
As far as Karachi goes, the instability there is due to political differences in more recent times. Religion upon the correct methodology and understanding unites a nation, wheras politics based on greed for power breaks it. I'm sure Jinnah sahab would not have wanted these problems in Karachi.
W'salaam
kind regards
[This message has been edited by Hasnain (edited May 25, 1999).]
Being a good Pakistani has no direct relevance to being a true or better Muslim because Pakistani population is not 100% Muslim, so a good Pakistani may be a Muslim or non-muslim equally. But since this country was created on the name of islam, therefore if a Pakistani Muslims practices islam in true spirit it will not only our Thanks to Alimghty Allah but also to show the world that we were always right in having our own homeland.
Nadia21 nothing personal, but it is a famous saying that 'suni sunayee par yaqeen nahee kartey" or na hee aisee batoon ko phelatey hain". Apart from that u said u r not interested in history then it should not matter to you at all what were the objectives of Quaid-e-Aazam.
I would say those with such views that Pakistan was created for "Muslims" only, are not Pakistanis. They should go and live in Iran or Afghanistan, their brotherly MUSLIM countries. Pakistan is for Pakistanis. It should have no place for those who believe it is only for Muslims. If Jinnah had thought that it was only for Muslims, he would have left his wife in Bombay.
Nadia has it right on the money!
"hasnain u first have to be a good insaan (human being) to be a true member to ur family, community, society, culture, tradition, and country.............."
Without humanity, tolerance and compassion for others - all the prayers, fasting, etc.. will amount to nothing, zero, nada!
The Quad-e-Azam is probably turning over in his grave at the sorry state of affairs in Pakistan; we have lost half of Quad's Pakistan to Bangladesh and the rest is torn apart with sectarian, regional and linguistic conflicts.
To answer your question: Do you have to Practice Islam to be a true Pakistani?
The answer has to be: PRACTICE TO BE A GOOD INSAAN (HUMAN BEING) AND THE REST WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF!
[This message has been edited by Adbulmalick (edited May 25, 1999).]
"quo vadis?"
"where are you going?"
said st. peter to jesus when the former saw the latter in a vision.
"quo vadis?"
"where are you going?"
is my cry to the pseudo-patriot extremists.
some 50 years ago, we had to be good muslims to oppose the very creation of pakistan. Good muslims (i.e. molvis) reckoned pakistan to be a plan of westernized liberal thinkers which were seriosuly to be opposed.
in the words of justice muneer,
"the net result is that the parties who opposed the creation of pakistan are, by a strange quirk of history, placed in a position where they could destroy quaid-e-azam's conception of pakistan and to give to the country, a set of laws which are directly opposed to the koran."
Quaid's own words,
"You may belong to any religion or cast or creed, that has nothing to do with the business of the state."
" Now i think we should keep that infront of us, as our ideal, and you will find in the course of time, that hindus would cease to become hindus, and muslims would cease to become muslims."
Lastly, muhammad ali jinah put on a hindu as the treasure minister and an Ahmadi as a foriegn minister in this crucial stage of development of a new free country. These two can obviously not be good muslims, yet being good pakistanis was evident.
ahhhhhhh again bashing me with ur comments no no i dont believe in that comment cause i have great respect for Jinnah and Gandhi though i think Gandhi ji was a little out of his head but then also they were brave headstrong ppl and i admire there these quatlities regardless of what their personal thinking was .............
Thats strange nadia21. first you gave a statement and when others expressed their views you are considering it bashing against you!!!!!!!
jak ji read carefully what i have posted then comment
In answer to your question hasnain. Yes.
Pakistan was a nation created for Muslims of the subcontinent to help avoid prejudice in a hindu majority country. It was not created to be a land for only good Muslims. In addition there are also many other religious minorities in Pakistan.
What exactly do you mean by "practicing Islam" ? Sabah's exactly right….nationalism /patriotism is a self declared title while religiousness is to be judged by god.
Pakistan was NOT made only for muslims, period!
The ideology dictated by the muslim scholars ,later on, after the death of jinah, has now been forced on the non muslim pakistanis who supported the creation of pakistan, thus betraying and cheating them.
Our religious scholars can not and have not been able to reach ANY agreement whatsoever on the definition of many fundamental requirements of their self-made ideology.
kg writes,
"Pakistan was a nation created for Muslims of the subcontinent to help avoid prejudice in a hindu majority country."
A neutral look into the history suggests a statment disagreeing to what has been taught to the brainwashed pakistani minds.
"Pakistan was a nation created for ALL RELIGIONS to practice ISLAMIC concept of SECULARISM to help avoid prejudice in a "ill-secular" country."
some supportive evidence has already been posted in the previous short essay. more:
--> " Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state, to be ruled by the priests with a divine mission. we have many non muslims, but they are all pakistanis. "
--> "The new state would be a modern democratic state with a sovereingty resting in the people, and the members of the new nation will have equal rights regardless of their religion." ( jinnah, to reuters correspondant in delhi )
Any clearer support could not be thought of by me.
Jewels sweets I'm an ABCD!!!!
Where did I get the pakistani brain washing from?
My intention with my privious post was to focus more on pakistani nationalism as being separate from a religious identity.
There is a difference between an Islamic shari'ah state and a country created for Muslims...at least in my mind.
True, I didn't mention that the country could also allow non-Muslims to exist under Islamic guidelines. However, the fact that the country was created for Muslims….and planned to follow secular rule, should have made it obvious non-Muslims would be able to live there.
Otherwise…you brought up some very interesting points and I don't think I would disagree. (Except for the brainwashing bit ;) )
My darling behna,
"True, I didn't mention that the country could also allow non-Muslims to exist under Islamic guidelines."
False :) You should have mentioned the country could and SHOULD allow non muslims to exist under the guide-lines of THEIR OWN religion.
"brainwashing" somehow seems to be a harsh and superlative, but unfortunaltely, the only word to represent the thought i was wanting to express.
though i was not outrightly calling you brainwashed, i was certainly relating to a class big enough to be exploited for political purposes.
You put on interesting question, and you certainly should ponder over where this brainwashing came from. had i known you personally, it would have certainly been easier for me to trace that out. it is generally relating to ALL those brainwahsed.
possible brainwashing source are:
1) books:
those books written in the past few decades in pakistan, starting from ayub khan and contunuing till now, FALSE ideology has been forced on people by the "pseudo-islamic-patriots". Such unfortunate stuff is on its very peak right now under the rule of nawaz sharif.
Such books exploit the religious feelings of the reader.
2) schools:
Such pseudo-religious-patriotism, has been on its peak in schools, and coursebooks. Certainly someone who speaks against Dr. "allama" iqbal or any of his ideas is regarded as, by most of the teachers, as a naughty and anti-pakistani citizen.
as exlained earler, this is also a part of political exploitation programme used by the politicians.
3) televeision:
There has been only ONE television in pakistan, which has been state controlled. Spreading false ideaology though it is obviously an exploitation of religious feelings of a common man for parties to get in power.
4) parents:
many of the abcd's (i particularly do not like using this word but have to, because it fits in best) although not under any direct or indirect affect of the above three points, somehow forget that their parents have ( possibly) been living under the rule of ayub the tyrant, and the abovementioned sources were on the peak of such exploitation as explained above.
The parents moved on their thoughts as were pushed into their young brains, to their children, when they were mature over those beliefs.
The white part of the Pakistani flag represents the non-muslim minority.
The green, the muslim majority.
Just stating facts here, nothing else.