Re: Do You Have the Entrance Fee for Paradise?
In case of human beings, by experience and thinking things through. In case of non-human beings, I don't know, it is for them to know. Also don't automatically conclude that rat to mouse is an upgrade unless you have some inside track.
If you guys have a way of knowing how rats think and learn, I am curious to know
So reincarnation cannot be proven even in the minutest or mightiest context of life. There may be symbolic evidence to suggest the existence of a creator conflated with faith in this suggestion but nothing to espouse the theory of reincarnation even symbolically. Anyway since I do not believe in reincarnation other than according to what I believe as a muslim this does not bother me at all.
Btw since rats are the number one research victim, did you ever consider who you might be operating on????????
you obviously haven't heard about religion being nothing else but a certain philosophy in action. What you are saying is no different from concluding that quran is nothing but the result of a hallucinated mind of an epileptic - where is the divinity there?
Quite naive of you to believe that being a muslim I could not possibly have entertained such an idea about other philosophies or ideologies and their divinity. What you state about the Quran was popular belief since its inception and even before a fraction of it was revealed, on the very indigenous environment it was revealed. The claim is 1400 years ago and yet has had little impact on the relevance of the Quran in the lives of billions of muslims today. Interesting an, epileptic who has no such history of hallucinations, never seen an epileptic transform a whole generation unless you would put others such as Buddha, Jesus PBUH, Rama, Krishna etc etc in the same category. Isn't it time to adopt another strategy, if you are so bent upon discrediting the Quran, find another way of doing other than by discrediting the carrier of it.
see above. It is only according to your belief. Unless you have a video of Allah dictating Quran or Sri Krishna esposing the Srimad Bhagwat Gita, you cannot hold either up to current day court definition of evidence of divinity. So right from the get go, both and a myriad others have the exact same credibility as far as the source goes. Further merits or demerits of each have to be based on the content, applicability, relevance, and ethical principles.
As applicability, relevance and ethics are context driven and since context changes over a long periods of time, the adaptability of the work becomes a virtue and rigidity becomes a liability that renders the work useless.
This to me is therefore a qualitative comparison rather than a test of source divinity.
This I agree with you on. Dictates of material evidence is not the criteria for determining divinity but confirming it that it cannot be disproven either.
Since God is independent of time, how does anything time relevant become irrelevent to God. I would agree with your statement non-divine inventions.
So what? I will take issue with the accuracy of your statement about principles not changing, ask you why you want to earn the pleasure of Allah etc but it is not germaine here.
Also show me one religion or cult that doesn't claim it is about spiritual and humane.
Germaine ????????? I lost your context here.
- we are not discussing your tolerance or intolerance because as you said there ain't damn thing you can do either way. what has been questioned is the claim that islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion; given that islam is based on quran and that very quran says uses language such as burn-in-hell and worse, there is a built in hypocrisy.
We wouldn't bother even about that if some of those who are muslim aren't going around killing non-believers quoting the quran; but the fact us they are! so when we search for the reasons within quran we find these statements which the jihadis take as justification to their actions.
Ok, first of all Islam is not juridical entity where we are putting it on trial of being tolerant or intolerant. And niether is any other ideology or philosophy thats claims to have divine origin. What goes on trial is the theist whose actions can be objectively analyzed. We can't sue Islam, Hinduism, Christianity or Judaism. Lets be objective here, since you bring up Jihadi's as your justification of Islam being intolerant to other religions. What goes on trial here is the face attached to the Jihadi not Islam, it is fictive in this whole setup and not blameworthy. How many of those Jihadi's had their own biases in leveraging Quran to propagate their political cause or motivation. How many such terrorists have a light bulb go on immediately go on after reading the Quran claiming that it is their divine duty to purge humanity of non-believers. The answer is none. So it means their is something else that leads them down the road to terrorist philosophies first but in the end they run into the identity crisis which is where certain people seek justification in the Quran for their planned misdeeds. In essence they have no way of turning back and its not the Quran which is starting them out on this journey either. They would committ to their crimes with or without the Quran. If the Quran is intolerant and this message is so crystal clear then 1.2 billion muslims should have disintegrated the earth by now. You are using the actions of a fraction of a fraction of muslims to malign the Quran, why is it you don't use the actions of the majority to uphold the values of the Quran and counter the wrong doings of misguided individuals?
- Let us take it to higher level of abstraction and use the term God instead of Allah - now, obviously God has proved quite tolerant of non-muslims. There is unshakable proof for that, some of which are:
- 4/5 of the world's population does not believe in the specific Allah you're talking about, yet doing no worse than the 1/5.
- While a majority of the killings are being committed by those who say they are 'believers' by your definiton, a dominating majority of charity, and humanitarian efforts (the very same virtues I have heard Quran espouse) are undertaken by the non-believers
- What's worse and making it conclusive is the fact that not only is a majority of the killings are committed by 'believers' (by your definition) but a majority the 'killed' is also the 'believers'.
So it seems to me that Allah likes the non-believers than believers.
Yes, despite not acknowledging God he still bestows his good graces on all equally. Is that not indicative that his mercy prevails over his wrath as we claim.
I absolutely agree a lot of humanitarian work is done by non-muslims much to the plight of muslims who are the ones in need or the recipients of this work. You cannot prove with irrefutable evidence that muslims are involved in the majority of killings. These killings are peanuts compared to the non-believers did during the two world wars. Its an unfair comparison. The muslim nations are just behind in learning the lesson of economic woes that come from successive wars and ravaging which the western or pre-dominantly non-muslim nations have learned after the first two world wars. The downfall of the muslims is but a few centuries old from which many lessons are to be learnt and built upon.
Yes this is the base problem that we are not united, mcuh to our detriment. Can you prove that the Quran states a believer should kill another? You cannot because it doesn't but puts forth vital emphasis on sanctity of life and justice. So if its not the Quran then what is leading to such bloodshed? The same thing is leading to the terrorist acts committed against non-muslims as well. Its not the Quran.
- muslims do submit to humans all the time. some examples:
- those living under a dictatorship are submitting to the dictator
- womenfolk, to be held righteous, are submitting to their parents and husbands
- when you apply for a credit card online, you are submitting your data to me
- when you want to travel abroad, you are submitting your application for visa to someone
Submitting meaning worshipping one and only God and acknowledging where the ultimate power belongs. Your examples are about organizational behavior of humans.
Are you sure it is attached? Pls check
Would I be posting here if not. I'd probably be starring in Sleepy Hollow.
or completely ignore. This being a public forum is read by others than such people as well and Inshallah! I hope it benefits others if not those to whom we are directly addressing. I hope you understand. A word of truth spoken irrespective to whom is not wasted time but a reward for it comes from Allah SWT. We all need more Hasanat.