Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
[quote]
Nice attempt at sarcasm. I would advise you to stick to a serious debate instead. Anyone who goes and reads your initial posts can sense the bigotry and a false ......
[/quote]
Kaka jee, thanks for serious debate. I dare not accuse atom bums of anything. All they know is to blow to transport you into bilssful heavens. (Bums can kill people). But atom bum should be courageous enough not to blow his own top when he has to take the heat of relatively small cannon balls of his detractor, whose attempts at sarcasm he has invited himself by pointing out the 'rants' exclusively in his posts. 'Single-track-mentality' is not something you would like to associate with people like me, bum jee. I had made myself amply clear in 34th post, but you had to barge in and point out the 'rants'. It's a pity that you failed to see the 'hidden rants' in the posts of people you seemed to be (indirectly) supporting. I'm not against renaming the province or even adding more districts to it, but I impugn the motives of some people. Motives do matter. However, the 'Pashtunistan' you are supporting and the 'Pashtunistan' I'm opposing are different Pashtunistans.
Therefore, I don't see much difference in our opinions, unfortunately. Your post was a huge victory for me as you have been gracious enough to jettison historical claims not only on North Balochistan but Northern areas as well. I'm sure you would not act as the sole representative of Attock and Mianwali either, and let the people of these areas decide what they want. (If they care at all).
[quote]
feel free to apologize for being an ass. I am a forgiver. God bless.
[/quote]
If that is something that would make you see my point, I have no inhibitions in doing so. I have not called you racist or unpatriotic. My post was very generalized in tone and shouldn't have been addressed to you, for which I am sorry.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
[quote]
Now, I, a dark short Dravidian, will excuse myself from this thread as...
[/quote]
WTF? We'll leave that sort of mentality to you and your people, that's your own twisted head which makes you think that way, they are not our views so don't put words into our mouths.
True Pashtuns never talk of pure bloodedness or consider any race inferior because we don't practice a caste system like the Indic ethnic groups. In our society being mixed race is not something negative, even the most staunchest of Pashtuns don't set "racial purity" (which doesn't really exist in any ethnic group) as a touchstone for determining someones Pashtuniyyat, only paternal lineage is taken into account (maternal lineage doesn't determine tribe or ethnicity despite mothers having a higher status than fathers in Pashtun families), others say one only need speak Pashto to be considered a Pashtun and others say one only need live by Pashtun values (Pashtunwali) to be considered a Pashtun.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Do NOT teach me about true Pashtunwali or how maternal lineage doesn't determine tribe or ethnicity in Pashtunwali. NOT interested. Do not converge on me. Stick to the topic and talk about The Pashtunistan mighty Afghan Prince talked about in the first post. I am NOT interested in what he says or she says about Pashtunwali.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
No offence, but I have had the displeasure of meeting some very prejudice Pathans… Pathans do often wear their caucasian looks as a badge of superiority for some reason.
Not that its limited to you guys, most Pakistanis are guilty of such prejudices towards darker people..
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
You have meet some stupid pathans otherwise we all pathans do not care about skin color. Rest of pakistanis are suffering from this because other provinces have dark peoples as well as some fair skinned people which create a desire for being fair .We pathan do not talk and care much about skin color as punjabees do ( i have lead 3 years in qatar and most of my class fellows were from punjab they usually talked this stuff).
Among us idea of superiority of a tribe depend upon thier bravery not purity.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Those Pashtuns who think like that are idiots, as a nation Pashtuns don’t look Caucasian at all, we’re lighter skinned than many other Asians but it is more a greyer color and different from the Caucasian white, our facial features are completely different to Caucasians, only those of us who have Caucasian family members look Caucasian (my grandma is Italian so I don’t have the typical Pashtun nose or cheek bones).
If you go far back enough even north Indians are partially of Aryan/Caucasian descent (some places more than others) but like Pashtuns and Persians they are not Aryan/Caucasian anymore. I know those type of nazi/white-supremist wannabe morons exist amongst Pashtuns from Afghanistan and Persians from Iran who talk of their Aryanness with such pride it makes me laugh yet if Hitler or Neo-Nazi groups of Europe today saw them they will think them Semites and lynch them.
I have lots of light skinned people in my family but light skinned people don’t do much for me, I even find certain light tones quite nauseating when I think of them in a sexual way, I have had a thing for dark (light brown, wheatish and olive) skin ever since I was about 9.
If Afghans and Iranians have a superiority complex and look down on Desis then that’s because Desis make them think like that by being obsessed with their light skin and pretending to be like them when they are not. I personally find Central Asian (except Pak plains Pashtuns) people to have very bland looking skin and harsh features and very few of them pretty. If Pakis showed some confidence and contentness in being Pakistani then others will respect them and they will be doing the image of their country and people a favour but oh no these scummy Pakistanis get inflated heads as soon as someone tells them "you don't look Pakistani", if someobody told an Iranian "you don't look Persian" they would be angry but Pakistanis get flattered when someone tells them they "don't look Pakistani, they look like Arabs or Greeks", till other Pakistanis bash Pashtuns I'm quite patriotic and if anyone says anything like that to me I tell them I do look 100% Pakistani because Pakis are racially diverse.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
It's that racist stereotypical impression other Pakistanis have about us which puts me off Pakistan and pushes me more towards my Pashtun identity than my Pakistani identity, I'm normally patriotic but when other Pakistanis are racist to my people it puts me right off, I admit we have our problems and if you read my past posts I've criticised my people over many things but nobody else has the right to do that.
At times I favour a culturally homogenous Pakistan at the expense of regional ethnic/cultural/linguistic identities but when other Pakistanis are racist I don't want my people to loose the identity we already have and try being part of one where they're looked down upon and discriminated against. Another issue I have is it's ok for Punjabis to be proud of being Jatt or Rajput or Gujjar and that's not seen as an impediment to national unity but when a Pashtun feeling a bit left out shows the same pride in his heritage everyone says it's socially divisive for Pakistan and unpatriotic. I was once willing to part with any identity except Muslim and Pakistani (with my language being Urdu and my heritage being all of the collective history of Pak territory) but the racist attitude of fellow Pakistanis towards my people and their own pride in hollow identities like Jatt and Rajput made me reconsider my decision.
If other Pakis respect us then we'll sacrifice everything for Pakistan because we want to but if they are going to look down on us then we are not so desperate that we'll give up everything just to change their impression towards us.
If every province in Pakistan was given an un-ethnic name like NWFP because the argument is that no one province belongs to any one ethnicity then that is fair enough, I would be content and be happy that all of Pakistan is seen as a home for us all but when Punjab is named Punjab because it's for Punjabis, Sindh for Sindhis and Balochistan for Balochis but we can't have our own province named after us then that's discrimination, fine if ethnic idenities are unimportant then have neutral provincial names across the country so that there's no favouriteism and nobody feels left out, that would have been ideal I would like to think Lahore as home as well as Peshawar but it's considered a part of Punjab more than Pakistan so I can't, get rid of ethnic names all over the country if you insist on pan-Pakistaniyyat and melting pot culture but if you are going to go for the keep names like Punjab and Balochistan then and say the country should remain multi-ethnic then Pashtuns shouldn't have to be the only ones who should be denied a name.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Well said. Although, I have met some Pathans from both sides of the border who would be indistiguishable from some European whites. I know a fmily of Afridi Pathans, whos daughter is blue or green eyed with blonde hair. You would never know she is Pathan.
On the other hand, people like that famous American Taliban seemed to stand out like a sore thumb in those pictures of him with other Taliban.
So hard to say.
Pakistan is a weird place though… People seem to have a strange inferiority complex. I guess thousands of years of invasion and over two hundered years of imperialism will do that to you. Someone should really do a study on the Pakistani love affair with light skin.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Bravo.. .Although, how much ethnic neutrality can one expect in a country with so much diversity. And unfortunately, prejudice is wide spread across the world, its tolerance which is important.
I dont think there is any country in the world that is free of prejudice, but there are many countries with tolerance.
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Hi Farah Khan
No region has given name based on people living there, the people got their name based on the region they are living
like punjabis got that name because they live in punjab( land of five rivers)
and sindhis got that name because they live in sindhu(land where sindhu(Indus) river flows)
the punjab and sindh states are already existing before partition and NWFP is newly created state and they have given that name because it is north west region of pakistan
the samething in india Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh are newly formed states after independence and they are not named on any ethnic tribes,but based on region they are in i.e Madhya Pradesh means Central Region, and Uttar Pradesh means Northern Region
Majority people in India are Hindhi people(60%) but they don’t have any region named after their tribe, but where as other language people do
Karnatka State in india has only 45% of Kannada Speaking Population but still the state is named after them, Bangalore has more Tamil Population then Kannada Speaking Population but still it is capital of Karnataka,
there are many time riots between tamil -Kannda people, but nobody think of redrawing maps
the racial discrimination exists in every corner of the world, What my opinion is you have adopt the culture where you live in permenently then where you come from
I’m sorry if any of my words offend you
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Redrawing existing provincial boundaries is too dangerous a precedent. Especially with the troubles in Balochistan, taking land away from Balochistan would do nothing but infuriate the nationalist movement even further.
None the less, the NWFP should be renamed Pakhtunistan, and incorporate the tribal areas. All special status of the tribal areas should be removed at this point and the region treated as equal to and the same as the rest of Pakhtunistan.
ya..NWFP should be changed anyway..
Pakhtunistan sounds like a country..ther shouldnt be a stan..
Pakhtun___ and something else.. its a province
Re: Do you favour a province newly named pakhtunistan and..
Sorry to hear that, brother but you have to realize that Punjabis have been central in evolution of Pakistan while NWFP was still trying to shape its identity. NWFP did not have much to do in Pakistan freedom movement. Badshah Khan sided with M.K. Gandhi, a hindu.. which is the worst thing and many in NWFP still believe that they belong to Afghanistan and they take pride
in that! They still dont respect Pakistani laws and have their own jaahil tribal laws and weird customs. My mom's side of family is from Bannu, not far from Peshawar and they always make some bad comments about Chaudharis etc. calling them feudal etc.. - just my 2 cents