Do philosophical theories

[diwana]

Re: Do philosophical theories

who gets to decide if this is right and wrong? there is no logical explanation for this to be wrong. how is oral sex okay for heterosexuals then? homophobia usually doesn't go with human rights.

please explain then is birth control right or wrong since it makes sex only for pleasure?

Good questions.

Those who are in majority and have much better arguments have to decide what is right and what is wrong.

For as long as human are known to exist, homsexuality has been considered wrong. Despite the fact homoseuality did exist for a long time. But time does not prove it to be right. Since a lot of wrongful acts have been present throughout the history of mankind.

Oral sex by heterosexuals is not really a right act, BUT if eventually the act is also performed in correct way then one can still say heterosexuals are on right path.

Now, if heterosexuals perform acts ONLY oral way then it is wrong.

You need to define homophobia.

I think opposing homosexuality is right thing to do for humanity. And all those who oppose homosexuality actually are advocating human rights.

opposing wrong act and saving human population from going in wrong direction and eventually bringing human race in to extinction by not letting everyone go on to this path is humanity.

Yes, birth control for short time is acceptable despite the act being performed only fpr pleasure.

If a heterosexual couple performs sexual act natural way then fine.

Moreover, if heterosexual couple says they do not want to have pregnancy ever (without legitimate reason, then one can argue for it being wrong ...to some extent but not strongly since the act is performed right way and natural way.

Same goes with masturbation: If someone is not married, perhaps the act can be considered valid, but if someone wants to live alone (without valid reason) and ONLY engages in masturbation or using doll or toys, then that is considered unnatural and wrongful

[TLK]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Bestiality also has no real victim if done 'properly'. .

Sahi farmaya ustaad

[bella88]

Re: Do philosophical theories

@diwana

Good questions.
Those who are in majority and have much better arguments have to decide what is right and what is wrong.

now we are going by majority? majority of countries have made homosexuality legal FYI. majority of the world also believes in Christianity, so Christianity is right and all other religions, including islam,and judaism must be wrong. majority of the world is against polygamy, so that must be wrong too.

For as long as human are known to exist, homsexuality has been considered wrong. Despite the fact homoseuality did exist for a long time. But time does not prove it to be right. Since a lot of wrongful acts have been present throughout the history of mankind.

because of religious reason only. atheists or those who donot believe in organized religion such as buddhists donot consider it wrong. you cannot decide how others should live their lives. Most Christians i have come across here in US still donot consider homosexuality to be a choice. whether it’s a sin or not, most christians here do accept it these days and understand that one cannot control their sexual orientation. it’s only a few narrowed individuals who think people have a choice in this matter.

Oral sex by heterosexuals is not really a right act, BUT if eventually the act is also performed in correct way then one can still say heterosexuals are on right path.

again, more twisted theories. who are you to say oral is not a right act?

Now, if heterosexuals perform acts ONLY oral way then it is wrong.

umm no it is not. you can think its wrong but that doesn’t make it abnormal.

You need to define homophobia.
I think opposing homosexuality is right thing to do for humanity. And all those who oppose homosexuality actually are advocating human rights.

show me how homosexuality is harming society. not agreeing with a practice is fine but no one should be allowed to dictate how others live their lives. if someone doesn’t like ‘gay’ behavior, they shouldn’t do it. who gave them the right to tell others what they should do?

opposing wrong act and saving human population from going in wrong direction and eventually bringing human race in to extinction by not letting everyone go on to this path is humanity.

by this logic, birth control must be banned. human race can go into extinction if everyone starts using it

Yes, birth control for short time is acceptable despite the act being performed only fpr pleasure.

why such hypocrisy and double standards? its okay when heterosexuals use bc and have sex just for pleasure but homosexuals cannot??

If a heterosexual couple performs sexual act natural way then fine.

ok so you’re the authority who decides whats normal sexual act. okay

Moreover, if heterosexual couple says they do not want to have pregnancy ever (without legitimate reason, then one can argue for it being wrong …to some extent but not strongly since the act is performed right way and natural way.

What?? now you’re just making stuff up yourself because you have no logical or sensible answers. there are so many people who donot want to have any children and they are wrong? you make no sense whatsoever. who gets to decide which acts are done the normal way and whats not?

Same goes with masturbation: If someone is not married, perhaps the act can be considered valid, but if someone wants to live alone (without valid reason) and ONLY engages in masturbation or using doll or toys, then that is considered unnatural and wrongful

hahah okay. who decided this???
this has to be the most hilarious reasoning i have ever encountered.

[bella88]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Peace bella88 Well you see this is how religion trumps atheism ... For us moral markers are given by God. Even in oral sex ... Flatly in religion it is considered wrong, but concession has been made for it in some interpretations ... Otherwise it is still not considered a moral thing and never will be. the reason why it has been argued as allowed, is because it can lead on to the normal natural act as a precursor ... So foreplay for the intent of the final correct act has been given permissible status. Again many people have questioned the morality of birth control ... Although the act is natural ... If not done for the intent of having babies is it right? However, other things such as desire and sexualised behaviour can be pacified if sexual outlets are there within confined relationships ... So the end result should be normal and within this some have argued it's purpose is to not only have babies but to pacify our urges too ... So we don't end up getting in to many situations where promiscuity becomes high ... It provides relief in a confined way ... But this is secondary ... So birth control will remain a moral issue ... And should always be looked into with caution, especially when it comes to abortion.

peace psyah,

the reason i brought up Birthcontrol is because many peopel here seem to think "what if" the whole wolrd turns gay, what will happen to our human race. using that logic, what if the whole world uses birthcontrol and chooses not to reproduce. using that logic, BC is just as 'harmful' as homosexuals.
and no, religion doesn't trump over atheism for many people. religion dictates certain things which are not suitable for all. people who are gay are born that way and no one chooses to be gay. what your religion finds moral and immoral may not be the same for someone who believes in a different religion. religion cannot be used as universal guide for morality, as people have different beliefs. if you get your morals from it, great. i certainly dont.

[bella88]

Re: Do philosophical theories

The 'what if' helps us define moral markers bella88 ... Total promiscuity will be harmful to society and likewise totally engaging in homosexual acts will too ... But if people remain largely devoted to a single member of the opposite gender for their lives ... Then healthy growth is possible to extrapolate after n cycles ... But for the same in either extreme is going to lead to decline.

Peace psyah
what you think is promiscuous may not be promiscuous for others. who gets to decide this?
you do realize there is more than 1 religion that people follow in this world?

[goodname]

Re: Do philosophical theories

seriously ???

if I over smart a financial institute no one is harmed. Its pure intellectual exercise, yet in west I could be thrown in jail for life. What you think why that is????????

Wrong. If you are a financial genius, you can be someone incredibly successful like Warren Buffett. Or at least someone who makes a decent amount of money cashing on your "intellectual exercise." You only get thrown into a jail if you commit financial fraud. Like doing insider trading. Or not paying your taxes. Fraud* is* very much financially detrimental to others and it is something that would or should warrant penalties in every country.

As for homosexuality and "family structure," lesbians and gays are very small proportion of society and pose absolutely no threat to that family structure or to anything else for that matter. Never came across an intolerant gay or lesbian or someone chasing you down the street to 'convert' one into homosexuality. Fine if someone disagrees with homosexuality as a practice but it is not OK to insult homosexuals or to keep regurgitating sickening false equivalences to malign them.

[Southie]

Re: Do philosophical theories

At a larger scale, it does harm us. It's a hindrance to natural reproduction system. The only reason homosexual family setup is surviving is because some heterosexual couple produced a baby for a homosexual couple to adopt. If whole society turns homosexual then humans would cease to exist within one hundred years. That proves right there that it's unnatural and harmful.

If Under population was an issue you would have a point. The rate at which we r going overpopulation and overconsumption is going to choke us in 100 years.

[Southie]

Re: Do philosophical theories

seriously ???

if I over smart a financial institute no one is harmed. Its pure intellectual exercise, yet in west I could be thrown in jail for life. What you think why that is????????

Let me break it down. Every society have its bases with which society never let any one mess with!! For west its stability of its financial institutes. For us its stability of family structure.

Many liberal here are in translation period as compare to pure westerners, once my desi liberals are thorough and find them selves were west is now, then I like to know their opinion no "no one harm--mutual consent " theory.

No. Seriously?

The debate was about the evil attempt to conflate homosexuality with bestiality and pedophilia. I have no doubt you know that such attempts to group homosexuals with pedophiles are evil. People can Call it a wrong act. But people should not lie and conflate.

now that I have cleared things for you, will you please express your rightful indignation against such attempts to pander to the least common denominator.

[Southie]

Re: Do philosophical theories

@bella88

now we are going by majority? majority of countries have made homosexuality legal FYI. majority of the world also believes in Christianity, so Christianity is right and all other religions, including islam,and judaism must be wrong. majority of the world is against polygamy, so that must be wrong too.
because of religious reason only. atheists or those who donot believe in organized religion such as buddhists donot consider it wrong. you cannot decide how others should live their lives. Most Christians i have come across here in US still donot consider homosexuality to be a choice. whether it’s a sin or not, most christians here do accept it these days and understand that one cannot control their sexual orientation. it’s only a few narrowed individuals who think people have a choice in this matter.
again, more twisted theories. who are you to say oral is not a right act?
umm no it is not. you can think its wrong but that doesn’t make it abnormal.
show me how homosexuality is harming society. not agreeing with a practice is fine but no one should be allowed to dictate how others live their lives. if someone doesn’t like ‘gay’ behavior, they shouldn’t do it. who gave them the right to tell others what they should do?
by this logic, birth control must be banned. human race can go into extinction if everyone starts using it
why such hypocrisy and double standards? its okay when heterosexuals use bc and have sex just for pleasure but homosexuals cannot??
ok so you’re the authority who decides whats normal sexual act. okay

What?? now you’re just making stuff up yourself because you have no logical or sensible answers. there are so many people who donot want to have any children and they are wrong? you make no sense whatsoever. who gets to decide which acts are done the normal way and whats not?

hahah okay. who decided this???
this has to be the most hilarious reasoning i have ever encountered.

This response is almost like a manual on how to debate. Calm, rational and brilliant. Taking notes, Prof. Bella.

[psyah]

Re: Do philosophical theories

peace psyah,

the reason i brought up Birthcontrol is because many peopel here seem to think "what if" the whole wolrd turns gay, what will happen to our human race. using that logic, what if the whole world uses birthcontrol and chooses not to reproduce. using that logic, BC is just as 'harmful' as homosexuals. and no, religion doesn't trump over atheism for many people. religion dictates certain things which are not suitable for all. people who are gay are born that way and no one chooses to be gay. what your religion finds moral and immoral may not be the same for someone who believes in a different religion. religion cannot be used as universal guide for morality, as people have different beliefs. if you get your morals from it, great. i certainly dont.

Peace bella88

It is only one argument and I agree with you that birth control and homosexuality both have similar side affects to society in certain contexts ... however there are other factors also to look into ...

Birth control is generally discouraged that much I can accept ... so at least view the consistency being offered by those religions that view birth control and homosexuality as barriers to procreation rooted in our natures. Now that does not mean birth control and homosexuality have the same affects because we have only compared them on one level ... I'll come back to this point after speaking about religion and atheism ...

You see atheism is essentially a move towards setting up the individual to be "in charge" of how they live their lives ... and religion essentially states a "code of conduct" should be adhered to by all individuals. When you say religion is "not suitable for all" that is true - but something not being suitable for all doesn't make it wrong. A good penal system is not suitable for thieves or corrupt politicians. The problem essentially is that you understand the wisdom in having a penal system, but at the moment you do not understand the wisdom behind preventing homosexuality from being considered an acceptable phenomenon.

I personally believe that many people who desired that corruptive mindset have made it their business to systematically coach modern society towards changing their view towards it ... over the past 100 years we see the attitudes change and this is a direct result of the people who penetrated key societal positions - where they can influence policy and public opinion - they take jobs as judges, producers and education ministers to mould the society in to what they want it to deliver ... The free world in the light of atheistic or should I say secular values is a by-product of a subversive form of control - religion is overt with is injunctions - but people have realised that to control the way people think is better - because they believe it is their opinion and they feel free in exercising that - but they do not realise that their exposure and systematic coaching is what is speaking when they say - there is nothing wrong with for example homosexuality.

Even birth control is sold just like homosexuality - If you read Brave New World - you will see how marriage is viewed as a corrupt thing and free sex is considered good - the reason why they want to break down the family is so people are less efficient in the economic sense - they will spend more - simple maths - 5 homes for 5 people instead of one home for 5 means more money for building more work, more labour, more economic growth ... The idea of birth control and homosexuality means people can absorb themselves in themselves - become consumers and selfish ... homosexuality is a mindset that is more than sexual ... is feeds the ego and makes people less in control of their desires ...

Do you see the wisdom in asking people in controlling their desires?

Whereas the modern world - especially in the realms of innovation and technology - everything is being done to fuel desire and enslaves ourselves to our whims ... If eating too didn't make us unproductive and unhealthy then junk food would be considered the best thing too ... the problem is in the modern world we only see things in terms of material benefit - however there are spiritual benefits too that ultimately have long term material affects also ... being able to see into the long term benefit and not get eclipsed by the short term benefit is what is called "wisdom" ...

From pseudo-historical religious accounts of homosexuality in the past - eons ago in a different time - when nations that practiced it were destroyed ... other key wisdoms can be acquired ...

Those homosexuals of a previous era were not just practicing the act but they were arrogant and inconsiderate of life. This insight should be tested ... are homosexuals arrogant and/or violent? This is true with any excess ... rich oligarchs who get to have sex with anyone ... and spend a lot of money on anything - how will their internal spiritual states be?

There is a concept in Islam - that if we succumb to an inclination when it is seeding then we effectively nurture that inclination and grow it to fruition ... so if we feel like stealing, then steal, we will then find it easier and more pleasurable to steal again, until it consumes us ... same with any "desire" driven trait ...

Desires should be curtailed ... whereas the premise for arguing for homosexuality the very same thing is presented as an argument favouring it ... this is how birth control and homosexuality differ ...

Homosexuality is desire driven birth control is not ... on the whole if people felt they had all the means to handle children they would not care for birth control.

There is more to say on this matter - but I have not time yet ... we need to look deeply at this matter to realise why homosexuality is essentially wrong.

[Monk]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Wrong. If you are a financial genius, you can be someone incredibly successful like Warren Buffett. Or at least someone who makes a decent amount of money cashing on your "intellectual exercise." You only get thrown into a jail if you commit financial fraud. Like doing insider trading. Or not paying your taxes. Fraud* is* very much financially detrimental to others and it is something that would or should warrant penalties in every country.

As for homosexuality and "family structure," lesbians and gays are very small proportion of society and pose absolutely no threat to that family structure or to anything else for that matter. Never came across an intolerant gay or lesbian or someone chasing you down the street to 'convert' one into homosexuality. Fine if someone disagrees with homosexuality as a practice but it is not OK to insult homosexuals or to keep regurgitating sickening false equivalences to malign them.

could not agree more. gay-lesbian are not threat to society. Hence you see in our counties we don't hurt them or chase after them.
How ever problem is straight people who are on homo-crusade. People making dent in society because they think they have been called upon by their secular gods to "protect" homo.

I mean protect from what???? Who is harming them ??

[Southie]

Re: Do philosophical theories

could not agree more. gay-lesbian are not threat to society. Hence you see in our counties we don't hurt them or chase after them. How ever problem is straight people who are on homo-crusade. People making dent in society because they think they have been called upon by their secular gods to "protect" homo. I mean protect from what???? Who is harming them ??

Seriously? You don't think evil folks attempting to connect and associate homosexuality with pedophilia and bestiality is harmful to that community? And you don't think good fair minded and decent people should rise up against such evil people and their lies? You don't think that is a crusade against the community?

[Theorist]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Peace Theorist

'natural' is not defined by that what 'harms' others or not ... And it is not tied in to consent either ...** One can consent to taking drugs, people go off and commit suicide or sexually there are people who are nailing their own genitalia to the walls or the doors of their houses ... Nature should be defined by what is purely tied in to the cyclical biological benefit of life. Any of these including homosexual acts or any other sexual acts that do not fit biological end result are in fact abominations. ** I whole heartedly agree that we should not let killers kill ... Also consent gets a bit odd when it comes to some animals who are probably more than happy to take the lead in sexual conduct with humans ... Two consenting adults outside marriage is just another problem for society even in the heterosexual sense. I would not be considered cool for having many female consenting relationships ... Most people can't even overcome the 4 marriages ... But consent is easier to obtain than marriage which means there is an increase in sexual promiscuity if we rely on consent as a moral marker.

So rather than argue in parallel to the norms of today ... Look carefully and honestly and group the things in accordance with how they belong. Consent is an arbitrary thing made up for the law ... It is not the demarcation for what is natural ... Biologically beneficial or harmful in the evolutionary sense.

Therefore, these acts are controversial. Ever heard of Armin Meiwes' case of cannibalism? He was looking for a man who would like to be eaten to death. He found a guy who wanted his flesh eaten raw! Meiwes consumed the guy for the next nine months until police found him. Meiwes was still tried and sentenced but the case is still controversial to this day. I can't even decide myself whether he should be jailed for it. Some things don't feel right and if we put ourselves in those situations, we know we would never do something like that. BUT people do! There will always be outcasts, weirdos, creeps, and killers out there but no matter what happens, they will not outnumber the law abiding citizens or sane human beings who just want to live and let live.

Consent might be made up per laws but it protects the normal and sane ones. Homosexuals are the least of your and my problems and what they do is between them. But if a gay man puts his moves on you guess what protects you? Lack of consent. They are more scared of you than you are of them!

[Theorist]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Seriously? You don't think evil folks attempting to connect and associate homosexuality with pedophilia and bestiality is harmful to that community? And you don't think good fair minded and decent people should rise up against such evil people and their lies? You don't think that is a crusade against the community?

Not only that but the amount of physical and emotional abuse gay people take from their own families and others should make anyone want to protect them.

[psyah]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Therefore, these acts are controversial. Ever heard of Armin Meiwes' case of cannibalism? He was looking for a man who would like to be eaten to death. He found a guy who wanted his flesh eaten raw! Meiwes consumed the guy for the next nine months until police found him. Meiwes was still tried and sentenced but the case is still controversial to this day. I can't even decide myself whether he should be jailed for it. Some things don't feel right and if we put ourselves in those situations, we know we would never do something like that. BUT people do! There will always be outcasts, weirdos, creeps, and killers out there but no matter what happens, they will not outnumber the law abiding citizens or sane human beings who just want to live and let live.

Consent might be made up per laws but it protects the normal and sane ones. Homosexuals are the least of your and my problems and what they do is between them. But if a gay man puts his moves on you guess what protects you? Lack of consent. They are more scared of you then you are of them!

Peace Theorist

Gays Scary? Seriously?

[Theorist]

Re: Do philosophical theories

^it sure looks that way by the way you guys write about them.

[TLK]

You guys are confusing the issue. Homosexuality is one thing, and being homosexual is another. Sure fine go ahead, protect the people, but the act needs to be condemned. It's like we all hate cancer, but we don't hate patients who have cancer.

[Southie]

Re: Do philosophical theories

You guys are confusing the issue. Homosexuality is one thing, and being homosexual is another. Sure fine go ahead, protect the people, but the act needs to be condemned. It's like we all hate cancer, but we don't hate patients who have cancer.

There is no confusion on our part.Can you please state why the act NEEDS to be condemned?

[Monk]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Seriously? You don't think evil folks attempting to connect and associate homosexuality with pedophilia and bestiality is harmful to that community? And you don't think good fair minded and decent people should rise up against such evil people and their lies? You don't think that is a crusade against the community?

southie, Remember "thirsty dog on bank of farat"? Just like that any member of society should be protected and
and handled with kindness. There is nothing more to this topic.
I dont want to "learn" the learning which actually is training towards six gender agenda
man
woman
gay
lesbian
trans male
trans female.
I rather stay at, man and women, and some God made with little unbalance. There is nothing more to it!!

[TLK]

Re: Do philosophical theories

Because its not natural as everyone is saying it. Your hands are not designed for walking, and there are certain holes in our body that are not meant for receiving things. You can walk on your hand all your life, but it would be using your body for what its not designed for.