This is about the event where the prophet had been attacked by people of Taif area who pelted him with rocks to a point that his shoes were covered with and filled with blood, even then he did not pray against them them.
I am just wondering, does anyone commemortae that horrible day and think about the pain he went through.
nice can opener you got there Frauds.. i might borrow it sometime..
PA, I am serious we commemortae other happy/sad days but among the days that our beloved prophet was attacked like that does not seem to be a big deal, niether do I find any event or commemoration about the demise of his son.
case 1; Prophet vs The unbelievers- difficulty was to be expected, although its not any less painful for the Prophet Saw.
case 2; Prophets grandson vs muslim. can u give me a reason why? that is called a tragedy.
btw, incase you are still wondering, the commemoration of Imam Hussain is not exclusive of the prophet's pain. Infact, it IS the rememberance of the hardship the Prophet went through for his mission.
This is the essence of Hussainu minni, wa ana minal Hussain. how can you seperate the two?
ummmmm how can you, the dates this event took place, and of all the majalis I have ever been to, no one has cried about this event, never heard a noha on this event.
so if you can commemorate the prophet thru Hussaen by using minal Hussain.,
Others acan commemorate Hussaein thru the prophet through Hussainu minni
right?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
case 1; Prophet vs The unbelievers- difficulty was to be expected, although its not any less painful for the Prophet Saw.
case 2; Prophets grandson vs muslim. can u give me a reason why? that is called a tragedy.
[/QUOTE]
case 1- prophet
case 2- not the prophet
P.S. since when did people start considering Yazid muslim anyways?
To commemorate this injustice we should.... wait no no no lets clear some things first.... did it really happen? it must be a Daeef hadith. Or may Ibn Ishaq fail to mention it. Or may be Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Jaffer would have an opinion on this issue. Lets check that out first….
.....OK, what we were talking about, so I was telling you that Imam abu hanifa's opinion can not be agreed upon since he was the student of Imam Jaffer. So I will agree with what he said. See Imam Jaffers opinion is more authentic. ....But it says in Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham also quotes him as well…. What do you mean Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham, do you think that they are more reliable than Imam Jaffer, man you are stupid .....
....and hence the fighting starts and people forget the original incident.
:(
madhanee go spoil some other thread
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
ummmmm how can you, the dates this event took place, and of all the majalis I have ever been to, no one has cried about this event, never heard a noha on this event.
so if you can commemorate the prophet thru Hussaen by using minal Hussain.,
Others acan commemorate Hussaein thru the prophet through Hussainu minni
right?
[/QUOTE]
1) seperate the tradition/culture from the actual philosophy of rememberance of Hussain. unfortunately, in the mainstream generally, these two are mixed up.
the philosophy of the rememberance of Hussain IS in essence remebering the tragedy of the Prophet.
2) i understand what you're saying, but i dont believe you can seperate the two (prophet and his grandson), otherswise the statement would have ended at hussainu minni.
as for yazid and his mercenaries, hey did not claim to be anything else but muslims.
This is the tragedy- within a few decades the Prophets ummah was fragmented and regressed so much, that a man like yazid was considered as the khalifat ul muslimeen. And herein lies the reason why Hussain was killed. The prophets deen after all his hardwork and pain, had become adultrated- the biggest tragedy of all.
I hope you understand where i'm coming from.
Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
**the philosophy of the rememberance of Hussain IS in essence remebering the tragedy of the Prophet. *
why not do it the other way around and thus remember the hardships of thr prophet because than that IS in essense remembering the tragedy of hussein.
*prophets deen after all his hardwork and pain, had become adultrated- the biggest tragedy of all. *
speaking of adulteration, i can go off on many idiotic things being practised by all groups these days that have nothing to do with religion, but thats a whole diff topic.
I still do not see many or any ..Nohay written about the prophet's hardhsip in taif, or the loss of his son.
fraudia; how in the world do you propose to remember the tragedy of Hussain, fom the incidence of taif? not a logical sequence is it?
the prophets son died a natural death in infancy. muharram is a protest against injustice. is that too hard to understand?
also, madhanee has a point, for both sides.
Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Fraudz, if you want to remember that incidence, is anyone stopping you? *
Nope,
*Shias don’t force non-Shias to join them in Maatam, why should anyone be asked to join others in their own rites? *
Niether am I asking anyone to join anyone in any rites its a simple question.
*No wonder it is a mess of royal proportion in the Islamic world, because people have nothing better to do than to pick up rhetorical issues and make a Khan Kaba out of it. *
true, kinda like how I would be considered a non muslim by most ahmedis or not be able to lead prayers etc. but yep rhetorical BS really.
*Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
*fraudia; how in the world do you propose to remember the tragedy of Hussain, fom the incidence of taif? not a logical sequence is it? *
sequence is not important, commemoration is. I have attended many many majalis, in US in Uk and in Pakistan and I have never seen anyone utter one word about Taif..period.
muharram is a protest against injustice. is that too hard to understand?
and the prophet faced massive injustice in Taif..why is that not an issue.
also, madhanee has a point for both sides
I am on no side. The day I consider myself with a side is the day I would just stop calling myself a muslim.
the prophet faced massive injustice all his life, why is just taif the issue?
your obviously not getting my point, lemme ask you, what would do more damge, being backstabbed by your supposed friend or from known enemies?
you're making it out to be a Prophet vs his grandson issue, when that is not the case.
take the majalis and nohas with a pinch of salt, because the message is only as good as the understanding of the listener.
but by all means go ahead and write those nohes about taif, and i'll recite them.
Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
**the prophet faced massive injustice all his life, why is just taif the issue?*
just an example
your obviously not getting my point, lemme ask you, what would do more damge, being backstabbed by your supposed friend or from known enemies?
but the damage is done, no matter who does it right?
so the damage is there
the prophet is defintely the more important person
the people who commemorate karbala say they do it to remember the sad events
yet there is no commemoration of a very sad day in the life of the man who is more important than all others combined.
That is the point.
you're making it out to be a Prophet vs his grandson issue, when that is not the case.
I am not making it a versus issue,I am making it a "why dont we remember that' as a point.
*take the majalis and nohas with a pinch of salt, because the message is only as good as the understanding of the listener. *
I understand them very well thank you, and did not see the name of the prophet in them.
*but by all means go ahead and write those nohes about taif, and i'll recite them. *
sorry I dont beleive in nohas.
and I guess the basic answer toi my question is
"Taif incident, or any other incident that the prophet was faced with is not commemorated (atleast individually)"
Thank you
mate if you wanted to answer the question yourself, you should have done it in the second post. do you know how long it took me to write all with a broken keyboard? im getting repetitive strain injuries.
im only giving you my perspective on it. but ashura is the saddest event in islamic history, un paralleled in every sense. politically, socially and morally.
Thanking you.
I presume this is directed towards Shias. Thereby I will answer in a way that is only relevant to Shias. You may or may not be convinced, but since it concerns our actions and not yours, you may atleast be assured as to the justification of our actions in our heads.
We believe that there is basis in the life of the Prophet and of his designated Imams of mourning for Imam Hussain. If there was not this basis in the prophet's sunnah or that of the imams ashura and muharram and everything else would have been atmost cultural, and not pertaining to Islamic injunctions.
The prophet was alive for a number of years, both after the event of Taif, and after (some?) of his teeth were lost in uhad (?). There is no event that I know of, of the Prophet ever mourning the loss of his teeth or of his stoning at taif.
Thereby, any such action amongst Muslims would be cultural, and though not necessarily unislamic, but without Islamic basis.
regards.
Fraudia bhai: since you know about Taif, I would really appreciate if you can post the WHOLE DUAA of Rasoolulah:saw: that he:saw: asked ALLAH:swt: in Taif…
I asked Nadia before, but I beleive she did not read my that reply in another thread…
I will really appreciate if THE COMPLETE duaa is posted here… not that just one line which everyone knows already 
Originally posted by humhaipakistani: *
**mate if you wanted to answer the question yourself, you should have done it in the second post. *
No guvner' I took peopl's responses and then took out all the tangents to and boiled it down to the summary response.
do you know how long it took me to write all with a broken keyboard? im getting repetitive strain injuries.
gime yer ady I will send u a new keyboard :)
im only giving you my perspective on it. but ashura is the saddest event in islamic history, un paralleled in every sense. politically, socially and morally.
ashura is a very very sad day that happened to very important people, however the taif incident is a very sad day that happened to a person who is more important than everyone else combained, and thus meaningful to me. The fact that no one remembers that day or those hardships faced by the prophet separately is a bit strange.