Look at all the topics on this forum. The greater majority of them are related to getting married back home, arranged marriages, conservative culture and a huge generation gap between parents and children.
Well goras don’t have these issues. No one is forcing them to marry someone they don’t like. There is no concept of arranged marriages (not counting gypsies). Conservative culture is debatable since its interpretation depends, but goras are just more “open” to new ideas. And their parents were doing the same things they are today, in fact if their parents were young in the 60’s, then there is probably a reverse generation gap.
Since they don’t have these pressures upon them, do they lead more care free lives?
My mom works with a bunch of goris and they have whole bunch of different issues too....like one teacher has been dating a guy for a long time and he is pressuring her to live with her. She would like to get married, he says it's just a piece of paper, and if she 'really' loved him, the paper wouldn't matter. Her situation is really common... lots of girls in their late 20s end up in live-in relationships rather than marriage....of course their boyfriends upgrade after a while and these girls are left so sad and broken. And then they are freaking out about having a child and their fertility. If these girls were desi and at that age, they can find a guy and get married within a year. In fact I know some desi people who get married within several months. Most american guys, on the other hand, will not marry the girl without dating her at least 2 years. So a lot of girls waste their fertile years like this and end up panicking at the end, worrying about freezing their eggs or whatever.
Another prob which is common is that a guy expects the girl to sleep with him by the third date, but if the girl says she loves him even after 3 months, it's just 'creepy' and 'stalkerish'...I don't get how a guy can have sex with a girl for months and months and be freaked out that she loves him??
Basically i think some desi marriage practices are really messed up. But i am glad that as a desi, it is not weird for me to consider a guy who likes me as a potential marriage partner and that i don't have to do it with every potential rishta (can you imagine?? :-O). Also it is sort of good to have the parental card...i don't have to deal with a guy pressuring me to live with him and worry about my long-term security.
other than relationships though, i do like the overall 'carpe diem' attitude of goras toward life. desis seem to just say "kismat mein aisa likha tha" which seems to be an excuse for laziness.
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
Depends- yes carefree but sometimes it can become careless or meaningless. Sometimes the carefree attitude comes at the expense of closeness and fulfillment of family; many kids move out as soon as they finish college and become independent- for this reason they don't feel as obligated to be with family. Or it may result in a re-evaluation of past conduct when it is too late (e.g. 35 year old single woman now feels she should have married earlier because she wants a stable relationship and she realizes now that she wants kids.)
You must understand there is ALWAYS a generation gap no matter what culture- it's just on different things. In the US for instance: teen vs. mother fight to get on birth control (for the teen obviously) whereas for us, the conversation may be different. for us, in addition to the generation gap, there is the culture gap because parents grew up in a TOTALLY different culture than the child. And the child has to deal with the conflict of fitting in where thier culture is the minority, thier religion is the minority, and their appearance is the minority versus adhering to their heritage. It also helps the goras that their culture is universally accepted thanks to European imperialism and thier influence as being the people in power in almost every region in the world. Just think if the ottoman empire became as dominating as the european, then we would be having a totally different conversation right now.
So to answer- yes goras have it easier- but our culture is not to blame.
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
sure they have problems - teen pregnancy, AIDS and other STD's, drugs, alcoholism, spouses cheating on one another, mom's sleeping with their daughters boyfriend and they're all living in the same trailer, idolizing celebrities/basing their lives on materialistic things and then not being happy with themselves (altho this last one is very common among desi's as well nowdays)....wow, i feel thankful to be desi :D
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
you guys are just talking about trash. I can bring up topics regarding wutta-sutta and marrrying for inheritence, and then we can compare. Despite all this, how many goris would trade places with a Pakistani girl who will have an arranged marriage to a guy back home and live in a joint family? maybe 1 out of 200 Million.
sure they have problems - teen pregnancy, AIDS and other STD's, drugs, alcoholism, spouses cheating on one another, mom's sleeping with their daughters boyfriend and they're all living in the same trailer, idolizing celebrities/basing their lives on materialistic things and then not being happy with themselves (altho this last one is very common among desi's as well nowdays)....wow, i feel thankful to be desi :D
Whoa--do you even know any white people?? i've worked in a school and a pharmacy so i've met maybe thousands of white people and i think your post is totally wack!! like mom sleeping with daughter's bf is definitely not normal in american society!And I think Pakistani people idolize celebrities alot more; ask any auntie the biography of Kapoor family and she will tell you in a nanosecond. Honestly I think you're watching too much Jerry Springer :D
I think you’re just trying to rile people up here!!! Its all good though…
Listen, both parties have their fair share of issues…just different. I dont really believe the idea that Caucasians/Whites/Americans/Whatever term you want to use have better or worse marriages/lives then we do.
If one marriage suffers due to wutta-sutta then their counterparts suffer from infidelity or other issues. Maybe you’re not familiar enough with western society to know the problems there. Just because you see a Bud Light commercial on TV where a bunch of white guys are clowning around doesnt mean all is well in the Land of Opportunity.
Look at all the topics on this forum. The greater majority of them are related to getting married back home, arranged marriages, conservative culture and a huge generation gap between parents and children.
Well goras don't have these issues. No one is forcing them to marry someone they don't like. There is no concept of arranged marriages (not counting gypsies). Conservative culture is debatable since its interpretation depends, but goras are just more "open" to new ideas. And their parents were doing the same things they are today, in fact if their parents were young in the 60's, then there is probably a reverse generation gap.
Since they don't have these pressures upon them, do they lead more care free lives?
They do have most of the issues like us don't you watch dr. phil or oprah? Even after marrying by their own pasand no force marriage or arranged marriage. They even have more divosrces and miserable life then us.
You know why? Our parent help us when we choose wrong person. These goras don't listen to their parents aka bud kahna. We are mostly not bud kahna to our parents like goras that is why less divorces and less single parents and less psychos and every thing lesser than these gorays. Only stupid ppl think that these gorays are better than us. Those stupid ppls are either dimagh kay andhay aur aqal kay undhay. These gorays are lot more worst then us in every way of life. No comparision at all. According to me.
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
aam, your view is totally messed up. I'm a gori and havent met anyone with any of the issues you raised. No one. well, maybe some who are unhappy. The other issues, sure they exist...somewhere I guess. But definitely not the norm.
and gr8, its really funny to hear that you think Dr Phil and Oprah's "guests" are typical people! If they had typical people on their shows then their ratings would fall thru the floor, the audience would be snoring and the shows would be cancelled.
Goris and goras have issues for sure. Perhaps more freedoms that Desis but that comes with more stresses I think. You have to grow up faster here in the west, you have to become responsible earlier in the west I think.
As far as marriage, the whole dating thing is just as stressful (or perhaps more so!) than arrangements! But don't fool yourself, gr8 and aam...by thinking the parents have no say. Parents absolutely care who their children marry and absolutely have some say. Its a different way of parenting, to raise and teach your children right from the start to make good choices in all they do rather than make choices for them.
No one can say goris are better or worse than desis....just different.
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
Mama of 3.
First I didn't understand your post that much. I don't even believe sometimes dr. phil or oprah's things are real.
I meant that through those shows I found that everything same exists like us in gora and gori family too. But there is difference in percentage. You guys have more percentage of wrong things then us.
We are all human beings. and all emotions and bad things are same in all over the world we can't deny that but also we can't say that you guys (means gorays) are better then us.
What I found we are far more better than you gorays mostly in all things. You guys (goray) do try to force marriage too but you guys are not that much obidient to your parents than us. You guys are servent of your likings or love or other things rather than your parents.
We desis and especially muslims are more obidient to our parents and listen to them and mostly leave the things for the sake of our parents happiness. Yeah that is good thing according to me. As they give birth to us our mom keep us in her belly. As you yourself are mom too and know what efferots and things it gets to give birth and raise them. As a reward we listen to our parents. We guys are selfish (don't mind my truth) you guys don't listen to your parents mostly so go by your wills or khuwashishaat or emotions or love. Only this is the reason we get married by arranged. You know what I'm happy with that. You know and you would agree with me too that not a single parent (may be except some rare cases) would want anything bad for his/her kid.
So yeah we go what they say and listen to them. I would leave my love for the sake of my parents happiness (for me and most muslims parents happiness is everthing rather than our own happyness). Why to reward them as they gave birth and raise us. Wouldn't you like if you ask something not to do to your kid. I'm sure if he will listen to you you'll become happy.
Some cases parents listen to us to when they see we are right. Love marriage happens in desis and muslims too. When parents think girl/boy can't be good for them they say no. Sometimes they are scare of that he/she won't listen to them after love marriage. You know love make ppl blind.
We desies don't want to loose our kids or our parents don't want ot loose us.
What I found you guys have more strickness in rules in my country rules are there but no one follows strickly. I see more crimes in here then my country. So we are better.
I can fill pages on things but I'm not in mood to type. Essays. lol
You admit it or not but there are more bad things then us in gorays.
Look at all the topics on this forum. The greater majority of them are related to getting married back home, arranged marriages, conservative culture and a huge generation gap between parents and children.
Well goras don't have these issues. No one is forcing them to marry someone they don't like. There is no concept of arranged marriages (not counting gypsies). Conservative culture is debatable since its interpretation depends, but goras are just more "open" to new ideas. And their parents were doing the same things they are today, in fact if their parents were young in the 60's, then there is probably a reverse generation gap.
Since they don't have these pressures upon them, do they lead more care free lives?
They lead more independent lives that is for sure. But they have different type of stresses in their lives.
Putting aside all the junk about wutta-sutta and Jerry Springer storylines, as well as the arguments of who is so much better, etc., etc.---
from my gori point of view---
Both cultures overall suffer from a general imbalance.
In desi culture, the attitude is very collectivist. So individual needs, aspirations, etc., very often are undervalued and people have to sacrifice a lot of their own identity in order to keep a whole list of people 'happy.' Hence the emotional stress of feeling responsibility for everyone's happiness, the emotional manipulation, worrying about what people will think about every decision, etc. Almost everyone has a story of a dream they couldn't pursue, or on the other hand, something they were forced to do because of what others demanded/expected.
In gora culture, we have the opposite---the collective is undervalued. People are encouraged to realize their personal dreams, aspirations, etc., but often at the cost of doing what's best for the family, being insensitive to parents' or other family members' needs, suggestions, etc. So although we are able to enjoy a lot of freedoms that allow us to become more 'self-actualized', it can be at the cost of our relationships with others. So in western societies you see a much greater sense of alienation with people (watch any American indie movie and they all seem to be dealing somehow with this theme of alienation), and yes, weaker family units.
I think both sides can learn from each other and strike a healthier balance in their lives.
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
I think in the END - if you have lived in western countries you TURN in a gora's life style.
First generation Desi parents abroad, are more conservative. As the next generation raises their kids and goes on to 3rd and 4th generation - then BELIEVE ME - there is no difference in the "new cultural" thinking of desi either. They have easily welcomed the gora people's lifestyle and are very much comfortable with it.
Now the question about who lives more carefree lives? I say Pakistani men live JUST as CAREFREE lives as the gora's. It's only the girls that are expected to be conservative.
So to answer your question - OVERALL - only girls don't live carefree lives... nothing to do with gora and desis.
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
There is truth to what NJMASTI and NYCGORI wrote.
It's about balance. I think pakistani families living in US and west and are doing a good job of keeping the balance. I rarely see "arranged marriages" they way that arranged marriages were done 20 years ago with little involvement from the bride an groom.
The new generation (even in Pakistan) are becoming a bit CAREFREE and INDEPENDENT
Re: Do goras lead more care free lives, compared to us desis?
hmmmmmm well thing is its not jsut us being desi. its us being muslim. we dont do things because its the pakistani way we do things cos its the muslim way ( or so we think) so if we have arranged marriages, etc its stated in islam that we can have them. but thing is most of us get confused between relgion and culture and thus this is why we are so messed up.
anyhow i think the main reason our parents nag us to get the best education etc to become a doc or a lawyer is because this is a white mans world, and you have to work just a bit harder to break the glass ceiling....so maybe thats why we are more stressed.
but i do feel sometimes we are luckier in some ways and hey not all girls go back and live with the inlaws against their will, in fact most pakistani people ( sorry but its true) would sell their grandma to get a passport into the west...
