I am not going to argue any further but stick to the point that Islam prefers you to marry a virgin unless there is a need to marry a non virgin (divorced, widowed). Here is the full hadees and nothing I said is out of context.
Narrated Jaabir: “Allaah’s Apostle صلى الله عليه وسلم said to me, “Have you got married O Jaabir?” I replied, “Yes.” He asked: “What, a virgin or a matron?” I replied, “Not a virgin but a matron.” He said, “Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?” I replied, “O Allaah’s Apostle! My father was martyred on the day of Uhud and left nine (orphan) daughters who are my nine sisters; so I disliked to have another young girl of their age, but (I sought) an (elderly) woman who could comb their hair and look after them.” The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said, “You have done the right thing.” [Saheeh al-Bukhaaree (3826)]
This is the one I was referring to. Some people even scholars quote half of the conversation (highlighted) and then interpret it the way you described earlier. But if its quoted completely, I am not sure if it can still be interpreted the same way.
Not to say someone should only marry divorced or widowed woman, but except for Aisha RA, all other wives (I think total 13) of the Prophet SAW were either divorced or widowed.
The older lady was a non virgin as clear from Hadees. And where is it confusing that prophet was preferring a virgin for jabir, but when he told the need of marrying a non virgin, prophet said ok.
This is exactly what I said, that you should prefer to marry a virgin, unless there is reason to pick a non virgin
I just want to clarify one thing that hadees, especially those that were complied by bukhari were not complied as qissay kahaniyan. They were not the object of entertaining you and me. Each hadees of Bukhari either defines a rule of fiqh, or support one.
I am not saying that marrying a widow is a sin, but marrying a virgin is better. It makes common sense also. Who is going to marry a virgin if everyone started to run after a widow or divorced, because somehow we are thinking that it's more sawab to do that.
Did prophet not know that he himself married only one virgin and twelve non virgin? Then why did he even ask jabir that question and commented that why did jabir not marry a virgin? He should have said that o jabir, you followed my sunnah and married a divorcee, I am so happy. But no, instead he said 'why did you not marry a virgin'.
Taunty comments are sign of lack of intelligence people. Either bring a hadees as counter argument or take a chill pill. I agree or I don't agree is not an argument. It's stubbornness.
But no where in the hadees you posted does the prophet say or even allude to your interpretation of 'its better to marry a virgin than someone who is divorced'. To me it seems like he just asked a question. It would appear you've drawn that conclusion yourself.
He asked: “What, a virgin or a matron?” I replied, “Not a virgin but a matron.” He said, “Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?
What part of the above did not indicate that he implied that it was better to marry a virgin.
You come to my house and I asked you if you took a bus or you walked, and you say that you walked and I asked that why did you not take a bus then it clearly means that I would rather have you taken a bus. I am not sure why it is so confusing.
Taunty comments are sign of lack of intelligence people. Either bring a hadees as counter argument or take a chill pill. I agree or I don't agree is not an argument. It's stubbornness.
Be more patient.
Furthermore, calling a person who disagrees with you stubborn is again your interpretation of the situation, not fact. Heck I'd even call that childish. If someone doesnt want to argue with you but disagrees with you, that person automatically becomes stubborn. Great logic.
Not that it's the case here, but sometimes arguing with someone is futile for many reasons.
He asked: “What, a virgin or a matron?” I replied, “Not a virgin but a matron.” He said, “Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?
*What part of the above did not indicate that he implied that it was better to marry a virgin. *
You come to my house and I asked you if you took a bus or you walked, and you say that you walked and I asked that why did you not take a bus then it clearly means that I would rather have you taken a bus. I am not sure why it is so confusing.
Again, thats YOUR interpretation.
He said "Why did you not marry a young girl who would have fondled with you?"
Not, "it's better to marry a young person who can fondle with you".
Also, since we are getting into a religious discussion, what was the prophets reason for marrying Khadijah?
I just want to clarify one thing that hadees, especially those that were complied by bukhari were not complied as qissay kahaniyan. They were not the object of entertaining you and me. Each hadees of Bukhari either defines a rule of fiqh, or support one.
I am not saying that marrying a widow is a sin, but marrying a virgin is better. It makes common sense also. Who is going to marry a virgin if everyone started to run after a widow or divorced, because somehow we are thinking that it's more sawab to do that.
Did prophet not know that he himself married only one virgin and twelve non virgin? Then why did he even ask jabir that question and commented that why did jabir not marry a virgin? He should have said that o jabir, you followed my sunnah and married a divorcee, I am so happy. But no, instead he said 'why did you not marry a virgin'.
This is what I tried to say on this forum in some other thread sometime back but everyone jumped on me like anything :( . Common sense is not so common these days... Alas!
Well, I thought that one of the strong reasons given for Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) having several nikahs was exactly that he wanted people not to discriminate against widowed, older, divorced, women when it came to getting married through his personal actions.
This is what I tried to say on this forum in some other thread sometime back but everyone jumped on me like anything :( . Common sense is not so common these days... Alas!
You see TLK, here is an example where I choose not to argue or jump on unknownnn because it seems futile. Does that make me stubborn?
You know, those of us who are divorced, it's not like we have cancer or aids or kudies. Allah (swt) wrote a different path for us.
Again, to PCG, look at what you are looking for. If this potential rishta meets that, then ask them directly why the divorce. It could be straightforward compatibility issues. How many times do ppl just rush their kids into marriage? It could be the other spouse cheated? Or the other spouse just was crazy. Who knows?
How old was the rishtaa when the divorce occurred? Men and women mature (mentally) at different rates. What you want at 21 is different once you've grown up a bit at 25.
This is the one I was referring to. Some people even scholars quote half of the conversation (highlighted) and then interpret it the way you described earlier. But if its quoted completely, I am not sure if it can still be interpreted the same way.
The hadith in question occurred when they were traveling. The portion that TLK quoted is what they said about marriage with the other parts of the hadith concerning other things. Anyhow, TLK is right. There's nothing wrong in marrying a non-virgin. However, what is recommended for someone who hasn't been previously married should also marry someone like them.
What are red flags in a divorcee - hypocrisy and double standards.
A guy or girl who is divorced but refuses to consider another divorcee is someone I would avoid.
Honestly, apni apni qismat ke kiski shaadi kahan hoti hai, whether a never married marries a never married or someone widowed or divorced. But it drives me insane being introduced to divorced guys who refuse to consider a divorced woman for marriage because she's tainted goods. Oh and there are some guys who are divorced with kids, who won't marry a divorced woman with kids, and they've also decided they do not want any more kids - so what if the new wife wants kids - apparently she needs to suck it up and deal with a childless life.
Oh and another red flag - someone who badmouth their ex. Yes, I know some exes are horrid, but be diplomatic in how you speak of them. Another red flag is someone who refuses to learn from their past mistakes. So girl spends all of her time in her maika after marriage and lets her mom influence her. Hubby eventually loses patience and marriage ends. Now she's looking to get re-married but still allows her mom to control/influence her and it's all about Ammi ne Yeh kaha, ammi ne woh kaha. If the guy/girl's family interfered in the last relationship - there are pretty strong odds it will happen again unless the guy/girl decides to live away from the interfering influences.
And the biggest red flag - guys that lie about having kids or try to sell themselves on the idea that the kids are with the ex and therefore won't be a problem for the new marriage. Any man who refers to his children as baggage or had abandoned them is a must-avoid-at-all-costs.
I talked to a guy once, complete beghairat. He was on shaadi dot com after 2 months of his baby being born, and him splitting with his wife around time of birth. She's out there with a little baby trying to live and earn an income, and he threw her out because she was disrespecting his mom, who still lives with him. He says that the only involvement in his life that she has is she has called him twice to help her find a part time job so she can pay her bills. :o Girl is from Pakistan and has zero American skills for work.
I was like, abhay go take care of your wife and your baby, you low-life.
