Divorce a nightmare? or

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Talag, a nightmare or a solution?

I am not sure if you people have any thing to say about this topic, you are probably too young, yeah, students you know :wink:

I personally don’t think that talaq is a problem, on the contrary I think talaq is a final solution for many problems, though it is not a solution for ALL problems. I don’t mean people should start talking about divorce every time they have a simple problem.

Personally I respect people who has gone throw a divorce much more then other people. These people had guts to say “enough”.

If more than 50% of marriages ends with a divorce in western countries it shows one thing to me. These people refuse to accept every crap their partner comes with, It means “if you have rights to do something I have same kind of rights too”.

Why do we have so few cases of divorce in Pakistan? Is it because everybody is happily married?

The answer is NO sir. Most women in Pakistan don’t have any other alternative. They HAVE to stay with their husbands or go back to “nanhiyal” /parents house. More than 78% of our women are illiterate and a very small percent have a job. That means, most of these women are financially bounded to a man, usually father, brother or a husband. Do they have any chance to say enough?

Among the things I dislike most in our culture is how we treat a divorced girl or a girl who has lost her husband (beva).

I think it’s enough for this time. “Enough Imran”.

:wink: imran

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i totally agree w/ you!!!!!

i seriously doubt that most marriages in pakistan are happy. ppl are just scared to get divorced...

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[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited March 02, 2000).]

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Dear Rubiya-

I've said it number of times and I'll keep saying it:

"Our - means Pakistani - is a 100% Hindu culture."

It's a non-debatable conclusion and if somebody doesn't agree with it...ITS AN OPEN CHALLENGE to prove me wrong.

This the root cause of all our social & moral injustice to women.

"I am not blaming the men because it is the entire society"
Ours is a men society and indeed we deserve all the blame.

I, being a man, find no answer for what you had to say except agreeing with you.

so long...

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Imran, I think divorces are OK if a couple has tried their level best to sort out the differences and have failed at resolving. Americans have the guts to say enough but the "enough" from an american is coming from a "WHAT ABOUT ME" culture. These people are idealistic and too engrossed in their own self image to share their lives and love with someone else(not the user on this forum) for long. Our own Pakistani culture needs to be upgraded so that women have other options and also develop self worth/image. I can talk forever on this, but more later.

Later
Zman

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Rubiya --- There is more that I can add to your long list . . . . but later as you have given the gang quite a bit to think about as it is.

I love the "aik chamcha zehr" example. It fits soooo well.

Imran -- Thank you for understanding. Now . . .please tell me what you are willing to do about the situation . . .
Please don't take this question as a demand. I am simply tired of hearing people say, "I understand" and "Things will get better" 'cause frankly, they don't. At least not on the outside.

After having lived through such circumstances, I know that I am rock solid on the inside -- I can take a lot thanks to the lessons I've learned. So, from a strictly personal vantage I have grown a thousand fold as a person. As a result things did get better for me -- but only on the inside.

The outside world has gone from bad to worse. And as Rubiya will concur, every year that passes by adds another layer of bricks to the wall behind which we are trapped.

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[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited March 02, 2000).]

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Rubiya

I totally understand what you are saying. Believe me. I have seen the behaviour that you make reference to "first-hand". Even if somebody manages to raise himself beyond the confines and boundaries that our culture and traditions impose upon him, the biggest obstacle remains the "family/mother". Ironic that one woman inflicts this pain on another, isn't it?

My intent was not to ask ts to come up with a solution. I merely would like to hear what guys that can see the problem feel about how to solve it. . . .there may be something he can see and I can't.

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[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited March 02, 2000).]

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What if you realize you made a mistake by marrying someone? What if, after years of compromise and sacrifice, you looked at your life and found that you were the only one compromising and sacrificing? What if you want another chance to find Mr. Right?

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[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited March 02, 2000).]

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Thank you for your advice, Rubiya Nur-ji. i only wish it were that easy. It seems awfully frivolous...

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I think it's terribly important that divorce should exist. I don't think that many people go into a marriage thinking, "well, if it doesn't work we can get divorced", but even for me, a happily married woman, it adds to my security to know that if necessary it's there. Anyone who has seen a friend going through a divorce knows it's not a clean surgical operation. But at least when there are no children, once it's over that's it. It usually takes place after months of agony, unhappiness, isolation, looking for alternatives, and usually for both parties involved.
Just three years ago two friends, both divorcees, got married. Both after long drawn out divorces, and much unhappiness... I think you can learn from experience. They are really happy and putting so much effort into their relationship. Both realise that they CAN survive on their own. When I start feeling negative I think about them and hope and pray that they will be able to grow together in this marriage.
According to the Hindu system, a girl is not given any inheritance, just her dowry. Thus one married she's no longer the responsibility of her family. She has no right to divorce. This is the heredity that we have to deal with, because though nominally muslims, many of us think subconsciously along the same lines.
My parents gave me two things: first, my education. My father said to me that if he had money to educate only some of his children, then he would educate his daughters, "because a man can find some sort of job any day" ... well he educated us all. And my mother always told me, "Beta, you could never do anything so bad that you would no longer be my daughter. If ever you need me, as long as I'm here, I will do everything I can for you". I've never needed such help, but it makes me more secure. Those of us who are or will be mothers can help by giving such security to our daughters, teaching them how to communicate and ... not getting them married in joint family situations!
I can assure you, this all makes me more secure, and therefore more capable and desirous of working out any problems, not the contrary.
My two bits' worth.

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[This message has been edited by Rubiya Nur (edited March 02, 2000).]

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I am unable to answer ..... I never married ... yet divorced .... so this is out of question. Waisay ek baat kehta chaloon .... I think divorce is no good, if you dont like the crap then you better think about the crap the marriage produces and that crap is the children. I dont think that I'll be selfish to my children. Bachay rull jaatay hain Talaqoo(n) aur to kisi ka kuch nahee jata.

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Dear Rubiya-

In my opinion, our society could be best described as:

FROM THE MEN, FOR THE MEN, BY THE MEN.

So in this male dominant society what else you expect other than denial, suppression, and injustice.

Women are being RULED by men and when it comes to power, there is no right or wrong, religion, morality, and mercy. Everything which is in men's interest is right and humiliation of women in every possible way is a big part of THIS rule.

Denial of divorced and widowed women is another rule of the game. The objective is to bring woman down so low that she becomes the symbol of Ibrat for other women. Have you ever care to think about words like Surtaj and Majazi-e-Khuda? Its just one word but it contains the whole story whose morale is ... ??? Think !!!

I know a woman who is of my age, divorced, and have a 13 year old daughter. For me, she completely deserve to "have hearts, dreams, chahats of having love and laughter and pampering in her life". In fact, in my opinion, she deserve more. We are talking about the POSSIBILITY of getting married.
And if it holds true, I've promised myself that I will compensate for the years of lost fun in her life. My feeling toward her is not because I am trying to "being nice and emotional in the heat of the moment" but the fact that more I think about it, more convinced I become. I've been thinking about it for sometime and I simply couldn't find anything wrong with it. And, do I really care about our HINDU society? You must know my answer !!!!

Now, to the people who want to know what am I doing to "correct" the situation, here's the answer... Isn't it nice enough to know that somebody cares??? It took ages for women in the west to get the position & rights in the society. They were also male dominant societies but did the RULERS abondoned their rights.. No!!! It was a long & painful process and the success began when the FIRST man started feeling about them.

I'm the part of this society but I'm ashamed of it, I REALLY AM.

so long...

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Assalam O Alaikum!!

Ammi meray liay larki dhoond rahe hain aur aap log talaq ki baat kerkey mujhay dara rahay hoo, :)))))))).

I don't have much experience and knowledge about divorce (aur allah karay ho bhi nahin) but i think now a days people are taking divorce on very weak reasons. Jaisay talaq nahin hue udhar ho gaya, kabhi bhi lay lia. I think the couples now a days do not have that temperment nowadays. Everybody is so much worried about self respect i think there should be nothing like self respect between mian and bv. mian bv eik dosray ka libas hain (thats wat Quran says) so eik doosray ki ghalti ko maaf kerna, pyar / care kerna, i think jab tak yeh cheezain dono key darmian hain Talaq nahin ho saktee. Aur agar mian ya bv main say koi ghaltee per bhi hay to doosray ko chahiaay sabar say kaam lay. *.

Anyway, i hope Allah sab miaanoo ko aur bvioon ko aqal day. (Ameen) jahan tak baiva ya muta'aliqa khawateen ka sawal hay, i know people do give them respect but not many people marry them. Is ka kon zimaydaar hay, aur kis ko pakra jaay yeh to Allah jaanay.

Wall'Allaho Alam / Assalam O Alaikum.*

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Assalam O Alaikum

hmmm, ts26418 : Do u really think that the women in West are safer and happier than the women in Islamic countries or lets say Pakistan. Well, i doubt that, as far as the respect of a women is concerned. Alhamdolilah, we Pakistanis and as muslims have respect of women much much much more than those in the West. U can never match a woman of West with a woman of Pakistan. A woman of Pakistan is much safer, much happier than a woman of West. If u want i will prove that.

As far as the Women Rights in the West are concerned, they are made just b'cos women do not have any rights in their society. Alhamdolillah, in our society woman have more rights then any where in the world. Women rights mera foot !!! This is just to show that Islam do not have any rights for the women. Aur mashallah hamaray muslim mard aur muslim aurtain they believe in them. If women rights means to wear short cloths and dance in clubs, go on dates then we don't want those kind of rights for our mothers, sisters, daughts and wives. Woh sab West ko mubarak hoon.

Wa ma alaina illalbalagh / Assalam O Alaikum.

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Niaz,

Comparing women in the West with women in Pakistan is like comparing apples and oranges. They are from different societies and therefore, have different social norms.

Ideally, Muslims should have a greater respect for women, but in practice [ESP. in Pakistan] this is NOT the norm. Women, their minds, their bodies, are under siege. How can one even be a good muslimah, when she cannot even read and write? She can only try her best --taking the word of others as to the content of the Quran.

Anyway Niaz, I disagree with your assessment of the current situation, but I wholeheartedly believe an Islamic Utopia would respect women.

Saira

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This is rediculous that women are not respected in Pakistan, women are most respected in Pakistan. Aurat ko maa(n) aur behan kay zavee-ay say dekho to her jagha aurat kee izzat hay, most of your are sitting in US and Europe, you dont have practical experience of living in Pakistan but you all know keh Pakistan mai(n) say keeday kahan kahan say nikalay ja-ai(n). What I would recommend do good by yourself and dont say bad to anyone else.