Distorted Image of Muslim Woman & Islamize America Before they Americanize Islam!!!

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

Dear Rani,

You have no leg to stand on

  • You can not say that to another participant before you explain your own deliberate mis-wording! A person guilty of misinforming purposely, is known as a liar, in english.

I produced the verses outlining the treatment of muslim women from Koran

  • Out of those verses, one said that a person can earn great reward in the life hereafter, if he has a fine behaviour with his wife

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That only goes against your point

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and expect to convert others to your way of thinking.

  • We just don’t expect. We convert. Islam therefore is the fastest growing religion in the world.

…So they turned away from him and said, ‘’ A man tutored, possessed! ‘’
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Paagal Insaan!

[email protected]

82

After that summary of the going-ons of this particular thread (by Paagal_Insaan) and seeing the hatred that's brewing here between the two parties (reagrdless of whose right or wrong)... I humbly suggest that we quit this topic. Both parties have said more than there needs to be said (and I say that without discrimination), both cases have been made. There's no point going on and on, over and over.

I suggest we end this. These words might offer some solution.

**[QOUTE]"We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

And what is there to keep back men from believing now that Guidance has come to them, or from praying for forgiveness from their Lord, but that they ask that the ways of the ancients be repeated with them, or the Wrath be brought to them face-to-face?

We only send the apostles to give glad tidings and to give warnings: but the Unbelievers dispute with vain argument, in order to weaken the truth, and they treat My Signs as a jest and mockery!

And who does more wrong than one who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the deeds which his hands have sent forth?

Verily, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness. If you call them to Guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.

But your Lord is Most Forgiving, Full of Mercy. If He were to call them at once to account for what they have earned, then surely He would have hastened in their Punishment: but they have their appointed Time, beyond which they will find no refuge!"[/QOUTE]**

(Al-Kahf 18:54-58)

Sadaq-Allah ul-A'zeem

83

Dear Masooma,

Islam that is being practised today is the same that was practised in the 7th century; and, that is why, I keep repeating that the present Sharia'h are "Out-dated and Obsolete" because they reflect the 7th century and not the 21st century. So for you to say the following is sheer hypocrisy:

1) "RANI SIS,
what you are talking about is not ISLAM, NOT THE ISLAMIC TEACHINGS, WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT IS THE WAY MUSLIMS IN TODAYS WORLD ARE REPRESENTING IT.AFGHANISTAN,IRAQ,SAUDI ARABIA AND REST OF THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NON OF THEM ARE FOLLOWING WHAT QURAN ASKED THEM.."

2) "P.S LOGICAL IM PROJECTING THE ISLAM WHICH EXISTED AT THE TIME OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD, AND THAT WAS THE TRUE ISLAM, THOSE WERE THE TRUE FOLLOWERS WHO SPENT MOST OF THEIR TIME PRAISING AND PROTECTING ISLAM, UNLIKE MUSLIMS TODAY WHO PAY MORE ATTENTION ON DISCREMINATING ISLAM."

I suggest you study Islam in the period of its infancy and you shall find what I am talking about.

BTW- in the future kindly refrain from making the Sharia'h sound like the "Scandinavian Welfare State"! Kind & Compassionate, it is NOT!

Having said that doesn't mean that the future Sharia'h cannot reflect compassion & kindness that is what 'IJTHEHAD' is all about!

84

LOGICAL SAYS:"present Sharia'h are "Out-dated and Obsolete" because they reflect the 7th century and not the 21st century. So for you to say the following is sheer hypocrisy:"
Dear Logical, Islam practiced in 7th century prescribed that it is the duty of the state to uphold the human rights of its inhabitants. If people violate the rights of others, the victims of those violations have a right to take 'an eye for an eye', or 'a tooth for a tooth' or whatever compensation the transgressor is willing to give. However, it is more virtuous for the victim to FORGIVE & FORGET(DOESN'T THIS REFLECT KINDNESS TOUGHT IN ISLAM), by such action God forgives and forgets some of the sins of the victim.
BUT IF the victims chooses to claim their right, the state has a duty to enforce their claim. This is not barbaric,outdated Shari'ah law, it is justice!.
You can think of the following situation,You see a man hit another man in the street and the other hits back. Is the second man committing a crime by retaliating? Of course it may be better for him to do something else, but it is his right to respond with a similar measure against the aggressor.This is what Islam call Justice, and if this is what Islamic countries are following, that is not out-dated, that is JUSTICE!.

"I suggest you study Islam in the period of its infancy and you shall find what I am talking about." Islam in the period of infancy? The word "Islam" means voluntary submission to the will of Allah,God. Dear Logical, Islam is the religion taught in its fundamentals by all the prophets. It is the religion which the "FIRST" human being was instructed to follow. It is the religion of Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and all other prophets (peace be upon them all) throughout the existence of human beings!From the world view of Islam, most of the world's major religions originated in the pure religion of Islam itself and only through the teachings being lost, forgotten or wilfully corrupted have these religions changed. So Infancy of Islam?what time period should i start researching on?

"BTW- in the future kindly refrain from making the Sharia'h sound like the "Scandinavian Welfare State"! Kind & Compassionate, it is NOT! "
*Dear Logical, If your talking about Shari’ah laws, they are supposed to be based on Islamic teachings. Shari’ah includes the Quran and the sunnah of the Prophet (saw). Sharia’h laws are suppose to take in account Ideology , faith and Sayings in Quran. From Sunnah Shari’ah laws are suppose to take in account the actions of Muhammad (saw) and the sayings (Hadiths). If all these factors are taken in account while setting the Shari’ah laws, then there is no question about Shari’ah laws being KIND AND COMPASSIONATE. Shari’ah Laws are suppose to provide its citizens with such economic facilities as are necessary for the maintenance of human happiness and dignity. The affairs of the community are suppose to be arranged in such a way that every individual man and woman, Muslim and non-Muslim, shall enjoy that minimum of material well-being without which there can be no human dignity, no real freedom, and in the last resort no spiritual progress.The right usage of Shari’ah laws was done at the time when Muhammad(saw) was alive, when Muslim conquered Makkah and Shari’ah laws were in use. The history tells us that the governing party treated the citizens with kindness and justice was in use. And yes "IJTEHAD" must be done whenever a muslim government is seen not laying down the Shari’ah laws in accordence to the teachings of Quran, , the actions of Muhammad(saw) and Hadits.

Ma asalaam
Fe Aman Ullah
Masooma

85

ASALAM-U-ALAIKUM
where is everyone??

Masooma

86

Bibi,
aap thaki nahee?

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…So they turned away from him and said, ‘’ A man tutored, possessed! ‘’
|/
Paagal Insaan!

[email protected]

87

Masooma thanks for the post - I agree with you wholeheartedly. ** It never ceases to amaze me, how many people who are NOT Muslims will tell Muslims what WE believe. ** Perhaps they should open up madrassas and teach (i.e. Rani and NY Ahmadi School of Islamic Barbarism!) We say women are equal to men, they cry - no there not!

This is indicative of the other underlying debate within this thread - that debate is a political one. There exist two camps: 1) those who are Muslim and practice Islam yet do NOT support Muslim governments, but are sypathetic to Muslim people, 2) those who believe governments (most of them undemocratic) speak for Muslims and are the cornerstones of Islamic values (Rani and NY belong here).

Those who oppose Islam (political Islam, because they don't understand spiritual Islam) speak the loudest against Muslims who preach EQUALITY, how ironic - when I say political Islam, I'm talking about the political and legal policies adopted by some countries under the banner of Islam.

All countries inhabited by Muslims today are NOT run in a manner considered Islamic, most are run by dictators or monarchies who utilize Islam to control and maintain their power. In the process they disempower others, in many of these countries it is Muslim advocates themselves whose rights are being violated (i.e. Egypt, Turkey, Malaysia, Libya, etc). Anywhere where there is a potential threat to power they suppress and any group where the threat originates is suppressed. Women also fall into that category, so they are stripped of their rights and denied an opportunity to play the role in society guaranteed to them by the teachings of Islam.

** When Masooma points out that Muslims also believe in the equality of sexes, it depresses these people who oppose what they erroneously percieve to be Islam - it throws all their arguements (based on gross generalizations and stereotypes) of a 'barbaric' Islam away. ** Muslims are all of a sudden 'human', they are 'civilized', this frightens them. "What" they say - "they are 'speaking' and making sense...how can that be?? They are telling us there values are not so much different from OURS - that can't be!" But there really is nothing to be frightened about, but try telling them. They'll first have to try to divorce politics from religion and try to see Islam for what it really is. Instead of confusing the policies of the Taliban (who have adopted tribal Pushtun codes) and the Saudi monarchy (a monarchy itself is unIslamic) with the religion of Islam.

The Klu Klux Klan, Hitler and others have used the bible to justify their idiocy, but that doesn't mean Christianity undermines the rights of Jews, or people of color or women, and we have the same idiots amongst us Muslims.

Achtung

88

That, in my opinion, was the best way to sum it up.

.....So they turned away from him and said, '' A man tutored, possessed! ''
|/
Paagal Insaan!

[email protected]

89

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Masooma… You’re one commendable girl…
go for it and fight for Islam all the way..

Rani likes to go on and on and when she sees she is not getting anywhere then she gives up…

MS

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~~ Gizzy Ki Jaano.. ~~

90

MS

Talk for yourself unlike some people I don't like to repeat myself like a parrot. If some one (Masooma) wants to repeat the same thing again an again regardless of the question posed in the end the only voice she will hear will be hers. In future as far as I am concerned, she and others like her can answer their own questions and brainwash themselves as much as they want.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 27, 2000).]

91

Asalam-u-Alaikum to all muslims,
Achtung, I TOTALY AGREE! That was one marvelous way to express the whole idea. Well said!
Rani sis, the whole article explains who is trying to go in circles without making a valid point.! All the questions you asked, you got the answers for, and if you repeat the same questions, obviously you will get the same answers. And whats with the "brainwashing" thing, who tried to brainwash you?We just answered the questions you raised in this thread. Thats all we did, and if you think, that was brainwashing, then its misunderstanding on your behalf.Thats all i have to say to you.

Fe Aman Ullah
Masooma

92

Masooma,
with only 44 posting under ur belt, u'v yet to see the true colos of Rani - when she shifts from one leg to other, changing her own stances, editing her own posts when proved to be wrong & at the end she ends up being the joke of the day.

Having said that, still credit goes to her for being persistent atleast on one stance - non stop gutter mouthing against Islam w/o using a bit of her brains.

Her every next post makes the phrase fits on her exactly in a custom tailored fashion: empty pot clucks again!

93

KK,

Long time no see....very typical meaningless less posts as usuall. Go ahead and put me down that is the only thing you seem to good at - I don't give two hoots about your opinion. I think your phase "empty pot clucks again" suits you very well.

94

Masooma,

I closed my discussion with you long time ago, it was going no where...please give it up. This post of in response to MS's post.

95

Masooma, “Acthung” is a German word meaning “Attention”, which Hitler’s Camp Guards used to say to the prisoners. He couldn’t stand one week’s heat in Rawalpindi, and now he talks about Islamic Solidarity. In his opinion, everything wrong with Islamic countries is due to the West (or Rani & Ahmadi Madrassa), so before agreeing with him, make sure you understand where he stands.

96

Everyting wrong with any or all muslims countries is not because of the west, its because Islamic rules are not implemented as prescribed. Most of the muslim rulers today are either corrupt or sellouts and I cant name you any exceptions.

In other words, I kinda agree with Achtung

[This message has been edited by zman (edited June 27, 2000).]

97

ASALAM-U-ALAIKUM TO ALL MUSLIMS,
Rani says :
"Masooma,
I closed my discussion with you long time ago, it was going no where...please give it up. This post of in response to MS's post."
The post stated :
". If some one (Masooma) wants to repeat the same thing again an again regardless of the question posed in the end the only voice she will hear will be hers. In future as far as I am concerned, she and others like her can answer their own questions and brainwash themselves as much as they want." Rani sis, as you know, we were done with the issue, but again if you say that i was repeating, i have to answer it by saying, because you kept repeating the questions.

Masooma

98

Masooma,

You started this thread with the idea that America or the West distorts Islam. This is certainly true. However, the picture of women in Muslim countries is not as rosy as you have been led to believe.

The position of women in Islamic Law is rather undesirable, because the laws were made by men who interpreted the Quran and Hadith with a bias against women. We all know that two people can read the very same thing and get something completely different out of it. Just because most of the Shariah was compiled a long time ago, does not make it correct.

I recommend that you read something other than what your teachers and your parents give you, so that you can get more familiar with the other point of view (the view that women have not been given their full Islamic rights in Muslim countries or in the Shariah). A good book to start with is “Feminism and Islam: Legal and Literary Perspectives,” edited by Mai Yamani. It is a selection of essays, and almost all the contributors are Muslim. Some of the women have more traditional views, like yourself, and believe that God intended women to be disadvantaged, for the sake of the greater good. Others believe that Muslim society has developed against the intention of God, when it comes to the rights of women.

You can order it through interlibrary loan from your public library and read it and see what you think. Decide for yourself!

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Zara

99

And Whenever I Read The Following Quranic Verses And Hadith I Feel Proud On Myself For Being A Muslim Woman!

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The Qur’an says:

And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women. (2:226)

Quran says,“For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah’s praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.” (33:35)

Enter into Paradise, you and your wives, with delight. (43:70)

Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life. (16:97)

**The Qur’an admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good. (4:19)**

They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them. (2:187)

**The Qur’an is quite clear about the issue of claimed superiority or inferiority of any human male or female:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (one who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquanted (with all things). (Qur’an 49:13)**

**The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was full of praise for virtuous and chaste women. He said:

"The world and all things in the world are precious but the most precious thing in the world is a virtuous woman. He once told the future khalif, 'Umar: “Shall I not inform you about the best treasure a man can hoard? It is a virtuous wife who pleases him whenever he looks towards her, and who guards herself when he is absent from her.”**

Abu Hurairah reported that a man came to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked: “O Messenger of Allah, who is the person who has the greatest right on me with regards to kindness and attention?” He replied, “Your mother.” “Then who?” He replied, “Your mother.” “Then who?” He replied, “Your mother.” “Then who?” He replied, “Your father.”

Mu’awiyah, the son of Jahimah, reported that Jahimah came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said, " Messenger of Allah! I want to join the fighting (in the path of Allah) and I have come to seek your advice." He said, “Then remain in your mother’s service, because Paradise is under her feet.”

The List Goes On And On…

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Zara,
So Do U Think That The Authors Of The Book U Recommend To Masooma Know The Best Of The Best About The Islam? Or If That Book Is More Authentic Than the Quran?

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100

Nice one, C.Girl,

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