I’ve been wondering lately what certain ppl exactly mean when they talk about ‘disrespecting the prophet’. I’ve often re-read the posts to which such comments are made, and honestly I cannot see in what respect they are disrespectful. However, I’ve noticed a trend in this: whenever I use an example of the Prophet -albeit in a hypothetical situation- against the people who take his example a bit too literally, it’s only THEN that these ppl start talking about disrespecting the Prophet. Speculation rises then that they are not actually concerned of any disrespect towards the Prophet but are merely sub- or overt consciously coming to the realization that in this situation they get stuck and resort to the disrespect argument in order to evade the question at hand. My question would therefore be to everyone: what exactly defines disrespect towards the Prophet? Clearly, everyone can set his or her own boundary. What is disrespectful to one can be an intriguing question to the other…so who is one to tell the other not to disrespect?
Please state clear criteria…with possibly no loopholes, because that is the best way to find out if a certain statement is worth discussing.
NeScio it's simple but a lot of people make it complicated..
If I have great respect for a person, if I hold them in high regard.. then if I hear a third party account such as:
"NeScio said this ..." .. or "I saw NeScio do that ...." ..
then before believing that person i'd want to investigate a bit more.. cuz hey.. it involves a person I 'respect' a lot.. and anything about him must be verified ..
There is however another form of respect which goes:
Hey you.. this guy's saying NeScio said this.. now if you really respect NeScio, u should start agreeing with what this guys said NeScio said as NeScio would want that and if you don't you are disrespecting NeScio.. etc etc..
you decide which is the better approach..
I remember a post, because of which I got my head chopped off, where i said that clearly the Prophet wouldn't have wasted so much time on the Internet as a certain cuber-mullah would. I clearly don't see what can be disrespecting in such a comment. I mean, I know for 99,9999% sure that he didn't use internet during his life, let alone waste time on it.
One criteria I heard was: would you say this about ur own father. Well clearly yes, I would say it: I can even say it now: My father would not have Internet access when he was in his youth years, and thus would not waste so much time on it
it's futile to ask people to see reason or see beyond personalities.. all their life this has been drummed into them.. to pack away the Qur'an in fine cloth up on some high place where no one can reach it without stacking chairs.. or do all sorts of gestures if you even hear the name of the Prophet..
all this goes very well with the illiterates (and the educated illeterates) who find it easier to get by with gestures of respect then actually read and try to understand what the messenger actually brought with him.. they turn to their scholars for that and in them the scholars find easy prey to propagate their own ideologies.. their 'daiRh eent kee masjid' .. so everyones happy as everyone is following a unique 'Imam' now..
anyone who wants to point out the folly of such a system is targeted by the mob... cuz all the mob has is passionate appeals to your emotions.. and nothing in lieu of arguments or logic or lateral thinking.
Ain't it the truth. I, for one hear ya loud and clear PA and Nesico.
They pick up the ideology from sahabah that yanked out all his teeth when he only heard the prophet lost his tooth during battle. Disrespect, my foot. C'mon you can't expect us to follow blindly without questioning it and having a degree of faith.
i still haven't heard any criteria for disrespecting the Prophet.....
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*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
I remember a post, because of which I got my head chopped off, where i said that clearly the Prophet wouldn't have wasted so much time on the Internet as a certain cuber-mullah would. I clearly don't see what can be disrespecting in such a comment. I mean, I know for 99,9999% sure that he didn't use internet during his life, let alone waste time on it.
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I witnessed that, and the same lot issued other death threats too, like slitting thorats etc. Clearly, their thinking capacities are very limited. Some of them do not even know the logic behind a persons statement, and think virtually every comment coming from a person who disagrees with them would mean its offensive/ghustaak-e-rasool and his throat ought to be slit. They are forgetting how much the Prophet PBUH wanted his people to acquire knowledge, learn to use their brains. I hope I dont get a death threat on this. The situation is also pretty bad in Pakistan. Just start a rumour, stating someone commited Ghustak-e-Rusaal and all the jahilia will get together and hunt that person down, doesnt matter if he actually did that or not. I believe a newspaper editor, was also issued death threats and fatwas, because he made a mistake and accidently printed someone else's letter, which alot of people found offensive. The real anonymous person who wrote the letter must have been laughing over all this.
actually, Spock, this just re-affirms the reason why in general Pakistan is in the situation it is in now........people ought to think before saying something
WE PRAISE Almighty Allah as is His right to be praised and ask Him to send peace and blessings on the noblest of prophets, Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is as the Lord says in the final revelation, "Grievous to him (Muhammad) is what you suffer, anxious for you, compassionate is he, merciful to the believers" (10:128)
When the people of Muhammad (peace be upon him) rejected him, Jibril came to him and said, "Allah has heard what your people say to you and how they reject you. He has ordered the angels of the mountains to obey whatever you tell them to do." The angel of the mountains called on him, greeted him and said, "Send me to do what you wish. If you wish, I will crush them between the two mountains of Makkah." The holy Prophet said, "Rather, I hope that Allah will bring forth from their loins those who will worship Allah alone and not associate anything with Him." (Sahih Muslim, Al Bukhari and the Six Books).
Blessed is humanity to have been conferred with such a great blessing as the holy Prophet. So after Almighty Allah's rights, the rights of the Prophet are the most important. There is no human who has more rights than the Prophet. Almighty Allah says "Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Almighty God and His Messenger, and that you assist and honour him (Muhammad) ... " (48:8-9).
Therefore, love for the holy Prophet should be more than one's love for himself, his children, family and worldly possessions. The holy Prophet said, what translated means: "None of you will reach belief till I become dearer to him than his children, parents and all humans" [Al Bukhari & Muslim].
When one reads how the companions used to love and respect the holy Prophet, one knows the importance of this matter. When Quraish (the holy Prophet's tribe) sent Orwa Ibn Masud to negotiate with the holy Prophet in the Hudaibia area, he was greatly impressed by how the companions treated the holy Prophet. He said, "I have visited the kings of Persia, Rome and Abyssinia, but I have not seen any leader more revered and respected by his people than Muhammad. If he ordered them to do anything, they do it without delay. If he performs Wudu (ablution for prayer) they all seek the remainder of the water he used. They never look at him in the eye, out of respect." This is how the holy Prophet was treated by his companions. He was Almighty Allah's Messenger who possessed great qualities and the best of conduct ever.
**About the love for the messenger , God told us in 9:24
"Proclaim:" If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people." 9:24 **
The criteria is in your heart. If you are a true believer (i am not questioning that) than you yourself know what it is. In such petty discussions, why would a person want to bring in the name of the Prophet :saw: in a way you did. There are millions of other examples in the world. The level of respect would also vary from a person to person depending on his level of understanding.
Islamabad: ur first two posts have nothing to do with the topic of this thread: they only tell us about to love the Prophet and how good the companions were in their love. They do not give any additinal information I'm looking after: I'm not sayin whether or not we should love the prophet , I'm asking what constitutes non-love for him. With this respect you come to your third post.....but then a question rises that if you say...and I quote: >>>>If you are a true believer (i am not questioning that) than you yourself know what it is<<<< end quote....then I wonder what right you have to cut my throat -a believer's throat....as you would say, a brother to you- as you do not doubt I'm a true believer????
Its quite evident and simple. In the context we were speaking, the basnat festival (according to my belief and belief of many others) is celebrated in memory of a blasphemer. This in itself was enough to make me angry. I personally did not believe on all this and when in Pakistan used to celebrate it. Now,besides basant being a festival of a blasphemer is also a Hindu religious festival (it is proved). Not taking the discussion to basant again, I would also say that even if something has even a hint of something to do with disrespect for the Prophet :saw: I would leave it. This is my understanding. I agree that I should have been tolerant and not talked to you the way I did. However, in my understanding I would never bring in the name of Prophet :saw: in petty discussions like these. After all, there are 1000’s of exmples available.
Isalmabad, before people say to you " where it is proved that basant maila is celebrated in the memory of a Gustakh-e-Rasool". I want to add something to your post.
If one has a true love for Prophet Mohammad :saw: he will refrain him self from anything that has even a DOUBT or a HINT that this thing might result in the disrespect of prophet mohammad :saw:.
There MIGHT be no link of basant with gustakh-e-rasool, if you have even a rumor that it is, one should keep a distance from such celebration as you do not know for sure that if it is in anyway linked to the disrespect of prophet mohammad saw. Do other things watch/play crciket or any other sport.
That was my opinion.
-Salman
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
The situation is also pretty bad in Pakistan. Just start a rumour, stating someone commited Ghustak-e-Rusaal and all the jahilia will get together and hunt that person down, doesnt matter if he actually did that or not. I believe a newspaper editor, was also issued death threats and fatwas, because he made a mistake and accidently printed someone else's letter, which alot of people found offensive. The real anonymous person who wrote the letter must have been laughing over all this.
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Spock, I would agree with you on that. People do take it to extreme when it comes to prophet mohammad disrespect saw. without even confirming the fare grounds.
But, let me ask you a person question ( please dont get offended its just a question ). What will be your reaction if somone comes up on your face, and starts cursing the prophet saw. You stop him, warn him, but yet he keeps on doing it. Indeed he writes a whole book ( lets say like salman rushdi) what would you do ? spare him ? let him be by himself ? what action would you take if he doesnt stop disrespecting prophet saw ? ( dont say warn the authorities ) I am asking in a sense like what what be your stand alone action if you see and confirm that the person has really said and wrote and spoken disgusting stuff about prophet saw .
Looking for your answer thanx
-Salman
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*Originally posted by SalmanNY: *
Spock, I would agree with you on that. People do take it to extreme when it comes to prophet mohammad disrespect saw. without even confirming the fare grounds.
But, let me ask you a person question ( please dont get offended its just a question ). What will be your reaction if somone comes up on your face, and starts cursing the prophet saw. You stop him, warn him, but yet he keeps on doing it. Indeed he writes a whole book ( lets say like salman rushdi) what would you do ? spare him ? let him be by himself ? what action would you take if he doesnt stop disrespecting prophet saw ? ( dont say warn the authorities ) I am asking in a sense like what what be your stand alone action if you see and confirm that the person has really said and wrote and spoken disgusting stuff about prophet saw .
Looking for your answer thanx
-Salman
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I would look at him, and then laugh at him and his idiocy. I wont act like an uneducated fool and slit his throat. What would that accomplish anyways, apart from getting me behind the bars? It will give my religion a very bad name, and endow intolerance on it, which is not a good thing. The people who could potentially convert to Islam will not be convinced if you show them how much of a macho-man-mollah you are by issuing death threats and slitting throats. They will be impressed with the tolerance Islam taught you, the same tolerance that the Prophet used with the people of Taif, who stoned and cursed him. Do you see the logic behind the Prophet's decision not to harm them? Not only did he eventually win those people over with his show of mercy and tolerance, he gave us a nice example to follow. So my friend, issuing death threats, slitting ones throat will do you no good. As for that Rushdie dude, I remember how much fuss the mollahs in Islamabad made when that incident took place. They destroyed Pakistani property, the American Education Library etc, giving a nice example of their jahalat, whereas Rushdie probably laughed at what they were doing. I dont think anyone ever left the faith of Islam after being convinced of Rushdie's work.
yeah well laughing goes only so far spock. certain times require action if only to validate your inner claims of love.
if someone was lewd with a woman from your household, I should think it would warrant atleast a black eye. laughing alone would suffice in that case?
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
yeah well laughing goes only so far spock. certain times require action if only to validate your inner claims of love.
if someone was lewd with a woman from your household, I should think it would warrant atleast a black eye. laughing alone would suffice in that case?
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Ravage, Im sure you gave a black eye to someone who lewd with a woman from your household, but we are talking about the Prophet here.
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
Ravage, Im sure you gave a black eye to someone who lewd with a woman from your household, but we are talking about the Prophet here.
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yeah, so what motivates that? notions of dignity? love?
this might be a sound bite, but isnt the idea of loving the prophet supposed to be that it supercedes the love for your family? and dont then you suffer indignity when the Prophet or his Aqraba do?
why advocate a weaker response so vehemently merely in his case?
Spock, Dont mean to disrespect anybodies family here but lets say, If I were to go infront of anybody and say "Your mom is a whore, your sister slept with me and I have proof of it, and he/she says it publicly.
Spock, are you going to tell me that if any comment such as above one is passed in yours or mine life do you really think that you or I would have enough humblness to stay quite ?
Spock, if you can calm your self at that time,bro I give you props for that. But belive me if someone says something like that about my father or mother or any of my dear family members, trust me, I will make sure that that person gets some piece of my mind or if I can i will not hesitate to punch his face.
I will copy and paste my post from another thread. I would like you to read it so you can undersatand where I am coming from.
Question, why do we pick the Sunnahs of prophet mohammad :saw:. Why we pick the Sunnahs that we like and reject the ones we dont consider worthy of being legitmate ? What I think, Prophet would have NEVER given the order to kill somone who would have disrespected him. WHY ? Prophet was the perfect being how could have done such thing ?
Ahamad, people might say that I am crazy, but do answer my this question or who ever says that Prophet doesnt teaches us to kill or say anything to that person who disrespects prophet mohammad :saw:
** What do you people do when someone curses your mother or father on your face ? What do you guys do when they keep on doing it purposely again and again ? What do you do when somone comes infront of your mothers and sisters and be vulgar with them? What do you guys do when/if the person writes a whole book of curses and disgusting things and i mean really really low things about your parents, What do you people do ? Smile back and say politely, please dont curse my parents and repent. YEA RITE !!!
You know what If you ask me what I would do ? I would mark my punch right on his eye and make sure that i dont miss it, for saying such things for my family. Then if somone would say anything close to that about my prophet saw? You dont want to know what I would do to that person.
So if any of you who says that we wont do anything if someone curses our parents,sisters then I must say all of you are lieing piece of…****. And when prophet mohammad saw is saying himself that ** The iman of a person is not complete until and unless they love me above their fathers,mothers,sisters and family. **
So, Mr. Ahamad I have a serious problem here ( and i know its only my problem no bodies else), that when people start loving their familes so much and would do anything for their loved ones and when it comes about the love for their dear prophet they bring in ’ Prophet Forgiveness’.
I call those people bunch of hypocrites.
-Salman----------------------------------------------------------------
Spock, do reply me because you do come with valid points. The nut shell of what i have to say to you is Spock:
If my sister is going out in the street and somone buggs her or says nasty stuff to her, I will be out to protect her, so that no body even dares to say anything to her. I think it is foul of me to prefer my love for my sister above Prophets mohammad :saw:.
What do you think ? What would you do ?
-Salman