I don’t mean this to take a sectarian turn, but how can you mourn someone who is alive?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
I don't mean this to take a sectarian turn, but how can you mourn someone who is alive?
[/QUOTE]
hmmm i dont think so..why u ask lajawab
sheraz
I think lajawab is thinking that since Imam Hussain is a shaheed, and thus not "dead" can he be mourned.
as far as azadari goes, I observe moharram, but do not find much reason to attend nohays or to do matam- especially the physical matam.
reflecting on the sacrifice of Imam hussain and the ahle e bait, and the hardships they had to go thru and understanding the significance of it, understanding the loss..that I do.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
sheraz
I think lajawab is thinking that since Imam Hussain is a shaheed, and thus not "dead" can he be mourned.
as far as azadari goes, I observe moharram, but do not find much reason to attend nohays or to do matam- especially the physical matam.
reflecting on the sacrifice of Imam hussain and the ahle e bait, and the hardships they had to go thru and understanding the significance of it, understanding the loss..that I do.
[/QUOTE]
Kami
you dont do matam that is fine..thats you...Imam Hussain (a.s.) is a shaheed but what about his sisters? why did they have to go bay rida through the bazaar or shaam? and when His sisters did the matam for her brother..was she wrong too? r you going to blame her too?
didnt you read in Quran that Prophet Yaqoob cried so much for His alive son Prophet Yousuf that he got blind..
When Owais Kurni found out that Prophet lost his tooth in battle he broke all of his teeth...
maybe to you Imam Hussain (a.s.) is just a religous figure but to us He is our Imam (a.s.) and We love Him more then our family..and yes we are very emotional bout it
Ok fine do matam. but there is no point in discussing what is debated thousand times without any conclusion. After thousand arguments you are going to do what you beleive is right now. So please do not waste your time. And contribute somthing positive. thanks
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nussairee: *
Shah ast Hussein
Badshah ast Hussein
Deen ast Hussein
Deen Panah ast Hussein
[/QUOTE]
can anyone please translate this.. literally.. (i think it's persian)
^ tell ur brothers that..matam hum kertay hain chot unko lagti hai :)
PA..ast means HAIN
samajh gaye?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Originally posted by Nussairee:
Shah ast Hussein
Badshah ast Hussein
Deen ast Hussein
Deen Panah ast Hussein
can anyone please translate this.. literally.. (i think it's persian)
[/QUOTE]
Ast=is
So what this post telle me is that this guppy believes that Hussein is a king of kings, Hussein is his religion and, Hussein is the religion of sheletr or protection. That is what it means in literal terms. Now you can make a decision on my query in the feedback forum.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
can anyone please translate this.. literally.. (i think it's persian)
[/QUOTE]
Shah ast Hussein Badshah ast Hussein
Deen ast Hussein Deen Panah ast Hussein
sar dad na dad dust dur dust e Yazid
Haqa ka bin e La illa ast Hussain
(Kwaja Ajmari Cheesthi)
Shah hain Hussain, Badshah hain Hussain
Deen hain hussain, Deen ki panah hain Hussain
Sar day diya, nahin diya Yazid kay hath main hath
Haq to ya hay kah La illa ki bunyad hain Hussain
(translation: inuit)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
Kami
you dont do matam that is fine..thats you...Imam Hussain (a.s.) is a shaheed but what about his sisters? why did they have to go bay rida through the bazaar or shaam? and when His sisters did the matam for her brother..was she wrong too? r you going to blame her too?
didnt you read in Quran that Prophet Yaqoob cried so much for His alive son Prophet Yousuf that he got blind..
When Owais Kurni found out that Prophet lost his tooth in battle he broke all of his teeth...
maybe to you Imam Hussain (a.s.) is just a religous figure but to us He is our Imam (a.s.) and We love Him more then our family..and yes we are very emotional bout it
[/QUOTE]
whoa dude... hold up
Where did I say that I think matam is wrong..you want to do matam, more power to you, so there is no blame here i.e I am not blaming anyone. I am siomply stating that I observe the ashoora in my own way which does not include reading nohays or beating my self up. You seem to have an issue with my approach. My view is observe it how you want to observe it as long as it is meaningful to you.
question
1) do people have their own ways of expressing grief?
2) is it expected that one would mourn in exactly the same way as someone else mourns?
3) is it better to be sincere in how you mourn in your own way than to mourn like others just cuz its the thing to do?
when my nana passed away last year..all my uncles and aunts mourned, all us cousins did..he was still a father and a grandfather to all of us, yet we all mourned him in our own way. One khala fainted..One mamoon became quiet and did not say a word to anyone for days. but not everyone did that.. why because everyone has their own way of mourning.
Now if there is a precedence that since Imaam Hussain's sisters mourned him by singing nohay and beating themselves up and cutting themselves with knives or beating themselves with chains, thats a diff story..but that is not what they did (would you elaborate on how they did their matam btw). So whether one is mourning by beating himself to a pulp somewhere, or whether someone is mourning by praying, reflecting, introspecting and observing the solemn occassion.. who is better. or are both doign the same thing in their own way.
I do not beat myself up in matam because Imam Hussein's sisters did so
and I do not break my teeth because Owais Kurni did so when he found out about teh prophets tooth.
Now since Imam Hussain is so important that you will use his sisters' matam as a precedence to do matam, maybe you should also break your teeth based on Owais Kurni;s precedence because afterall the prophet is much more important.
Heck I could go and read nohay..and have done so..and do matam.. and have done so..but it would not mean that I would mourn Imam hussain more than if I mourn this time as I do now. Does not mean he means less to me.. just means I mourn in my own way.
Peace
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
whoa dude... hold up
Where did I say that I think matam is wrong..you want to do matam, more power to you, so there is no blame here i.e I am not blaming anyone. I am siomply stating that I observe the ashoora in my own way which does not include reading nohays or beating my self up. You seem to have an issue with my approach. My view is observe it how you want to observe it as long as it is meaningful to you.
question
1) do people have their own ways of expressing grief?
2) is it expected that one would mourn in exactly the same way as someone else mourns?
3) is it better to be sincere in how you mourn in your own way than to mourn like others just cuz its the thing to do?
when my nana passed away last year..all my uncles and aunts mourned, all us cousins did..he was still a father and a grandfather to all of us, yet we all mourned him in our own way. One khala fainted..One mamoon became quiet and did not say a word to anyone for days. but not everyone did that.. why because everyone has their own way of mourning.
Now if there is a precedence that since Imaam Hussain's sisters mourned him by singing nohay and beating themselves up and cutting themselves with knives or beating themselves with chains, thats a diff story..but that is not what they did (would you elaborate on how they did their matam btw). So whether one is mourning by beating himself to a pulp somewhere, or whether someone is mourning by praying, reflecting, introspecting and observing the solemn occassion.. who is better. or are both doign the same thing in their own way.
I do not beat myself up in matam because Imam Hussein's sisters did so
and I do not break my teeth because Owais Kurni did so when he found out about teh prophets tooth.
Now since Imam Hussain is so important that you will use his sisters' matam as a precedence to do matam, maybe you should also break your teeth based on Owais Kurni;s precedence because afterall the prophet is much more important.
Heck I could go and read nohay..and have done so..and do matam.. and have done so..but it would not mean that I would mourn Imam hussain more than if I mourn this time as I do now. Does not mean he means less to me.. just means I mourn in my own way.
Peace
[/QUOTE]
woah dude...hold up
now scroll up and read my post again..i said you dont' do matam..thats fine..thats you ..maybe i should have ended the paragraph there..i am not telling anyone to do or not to do matam..cuz like u said everyone mourn in their own way..full stop.
now when i brought the incidents from the past...its only for the ppl who say its wrong to do matam..if it was wrong then Prophet's (pbuh&up) wives wouldnt have started to beat themselves up when they found out about his death..just like that wahabis also say its wrong to cry..hence i brought Prophet Yaqoob's (pbuh) example
again i dont need to hear from anyone how i need to mourn..i am sorry to hear that ur nana passed away..both of my grandparents have passed away too..for their barsi we just have one majlis and thats all but Imam Hussains (a.s.) gham is something we will never forget
Prophet's (pbuh&up) message from Prophet (pbuh&up) or Imam's (a.s.)message from Imam's (a.s.) is hadith<<
thanks..
Sheraz
my issue was with the last sentence. Just because I do not do matam does not mean i value Imam hussain any less than some guy slicing his own skull in tehran.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Sheraz
my issue was with the last sentence. Just because I do not do matam does not mean i value Imam hussain any less than some guy slicing his own skull in tehran.
[/QUOTE]
Its 50% Fraudz. Its your theory that if one dont do matam, it does not mean that he value Imam Hussain any less than someone who do matam for Imam Hassain(AS)
This is a case of VALUE --
means you value Imam Hussain(AS) but dont do Matam
another person also value Imam Hussain and do Matam for him.
Then what would you say about that person? as per your saying that if I don’t do matam for Imam Hussain it does not mean that I value imam Hussain any less than someone who do matam for Imam Hussain. Would you say that I hate those who value imam Hussain any other way as I value, like you expressed your feeling to for those people who value imam Hussain the other way but not like you.
Moreover what if you say that I also value the enemies of Imam Hussain unlike the one who do matam for imam Hussain. I don’t understand this theory. That those people who say that we love imam Hussain at the same time they show their kindheartedness to Yazid (Ln) and Abin e Ziyad (Ln). This is Munafqat. Like those people who say that we love Allah at the same time they support Satan. Please stay in to the topic.
I was reading this news in a newspaper today:
[quote]
Rabbi asks Pope for reaffirmation
One of Israeli's two chief rabbis urged the Pope yesterday to publicly reaffirm that Jews are not to blame for the death of Jessues, saying he fears Mel Gibson's film, The Passion of Christ, could revive such beliefs.
[/quote]
Same here, many of those people entered into Sunni Islam who are the lovers and followers of Banu Ummiyah. They are struggling to make the belief of Sunni that Yazid should not be blame for the Karbala. They believe that Yazid is their Imam. (Imam Yazid) They are writing articles from Nasbi and Kharji resources and trying to pretend Sunni muslims that this is reality. Be aware of it even if you don’t do matam.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
again i dont need to hear from anyone how i need to mourn..i am sorry to hear that ur nana passed away..both of my grandparents have passed away too..for their barsi we just have one majlis and thats all but Imam Hussains (a.s.) gham is something we will never forget
[/QUOTE]
I want to add one thing.
and that one majlis is not in the Ghum of Grandparents; that is for their Esal e Sawab. That majlis is still for Imam Hussain(AS). is to reaffirm and to remind the hardships and difficulties of Ahle Bait of Prophet Muhammad in the way of Islam. Our own problems and difficulties are just nothing as comparied to them.
It is forbidden to mourn for deads. if one face this kind of situation that somebody very close died, remember Imam Hussain(AS) the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Zaynab(AS) the granddaughter of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and their hardships. They were not deads. They were martyred (AS).
yes inuit..i couldnt explain it right..nadeem sarwar ka woh noha yaad aa raha hai iss waqt:
har gham ko bhula dengay..har yaad mita dengay
Zehra (a.s.) tere bacho ki..bus yaad manani hai
yeh shaam-e-ghareeba hain..darya ki rawani hai
pyaase na rahay baaki..phir kis liye paani hai
What is the sharaee daleel of doing esal e sawab like this…and specifieng just one type of act as for esal e sawab…
kindly give any quranic ..or if not possible then authentic hadith refrence…
Secondly …Is there any majalis for the shadah of hadrat ali:razi:
Faisal bhai ..u can split the thread if u want to…
There is majlis for shadat of Hazrat Ali(as) :)
Brother first I would like to know that do you accept the concept of Esal-e-Sawab or not. If you accept than answer would be from the middle and if you don’t the answer would be from start. If you have knowledge about certain things share with others, if you don’t have knowledge about certain things than ask those who know. There is no other way.
Simply wasting others times by asking known things again and again like Bni Israel is not good. I am sure you are not like that kind of person. I am waiting for your reply.
not only Imam Ali (AS) there are majalis for all Masoomeen. Plus on different topics. you can find a good database of Majalis in different languages at this website: www.imambargah.com