Quran 61:14
O ye who believe! Be Allah’s helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah? They said: We are Allah’s helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved.* Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.** *
what exactly does this refer to???
armughal,
There were three tribes/groups of Bani-Israel present in Jerusalem/Palestine at the time Hazrat Isa (as) preached to them. They are referred to as Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Essenes. Hazrat Isa (as) himself was from Essenes and most of his early disciples came from Essenes tribe. They suffered great persecution at the hand of their fellow Jews for accepting the messiah & many claimed martyrdom with Steven being the first of them.
The aya refers in a prophetic way the dominance of Christians over Jews at that time and the times to come. As history shows that apart from the early three centuries of persecution, Christians have founded and ruled many powerful empires & have been blessed by Allah while the Jews have remained dispersed and wanderers.
^
so the present day christians r "the believers"????
You can read from Tafsir.com here
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
so the present day christians r "the believers"????
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r u kidding?
i dont know about non american christians, but almost all he american christians i have seen and talked to, they dont even belive in God, they believe in jesus as God, as if that was possible, may Allah save us from such evil. americans have made christianity into something new, they are closer to being mushriks than to the people of the book. as long as you are "nice" you are going to heaven. they can be whores, living with their boyfriends, having illegetimate children, but they are "nice" and thus are going to "heaven". indeed they are the ones quran talks about that their deeds are wasted and they were under the illusion that they were doing good deeds all along.
i have tafsir ibn kathir at home, and i dont quite agree with the idea that the victory talked about here is the victory gained by muslims under Muhammad (sa)…
cuz it talks about believers from bani israel…
so it must have been some other victory… :konfused:
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dont know about non american christians, but almost all he american christians i have seen and talked to, they dont even belive in God, they believe in jesus as God, as if that was possible, may Allah save us from such evil. americans have made christianity into something new, they are closer to being mushriks than to the people of the book. as long as you are "nice" you are going to heaven. they can be whores, living with their boyfriends, having illegetimate children, but they are "nice" and thus are going to "heaven". indeed they are the ones quran talks about that their deeds are wasted and they were under the illusion that they were doing good deeds all along.
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Nice bit of hatespeech there. I'm sure Allah is very proud of you. Shame on the mods for allowing such trash to stand.
armughal,
The prophecies come true in different ways. For example, the Muslims who invaded Spain or came to Asia & the Ottomans who took Constantinople in 1453 were far in faith from those devotee Sahabas or companions of the Holy Prophet (saw) that stood by his side when all odds were against him. So, it’s not odd that the following generations of the ‘Believers of Bani-Israel’ reaped the fruits of sacrifice of the true disciples of Hazrat Isa (as) ..
Also, another interpretation of the* ayaa *can be all those who believe in Jesus regardless of how they believe in him, including the Muslims, have for generations overcome the non-believers in him.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
They suffered great persecution at the hand of their fellow Jews for accepting the messiah & many claimed martyrdom with Steven being the first of them.
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What is your take on Steven and the other disciples of Jesus. Would you say they taught according to what they were taught by Jesus?
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
Nice bit of hatespeech there. I'm sure Allah is very proud of you. Shame on the mods for allowing such trash to stand.
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hmm..hate speech???
truth hurts buddy...i have talked to enough christians to know what i am talking about.....as long as you belive in "jesus" u r saved, while u can commit any sin in christian religion....there are gay priests because God "made" them that way, people "understand" being gay, they "understand" living with boyfriends or girldfriends, and they "understand" having babies out of wedlock......and i m correct in stating that americans have made christianity into something different...as no christian priest from even 200 years ago could have called what americans practise as christianity.....
ThandyMazaq is right. Christianity in America has found an identity of it's own. As long as you turn the other cheek and I'm not talking about the one on the face, you will be saved!
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*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
hmm..hate speech???
truth hurts buddy...i have talked to enough christians to know what i am talking about.....as long as you belive in "jesus" u r saved, while u can commit any sin in christian religion....there are gay priests because God "made" them that way, people "understand" being gay, they "understand" living with boyfriends or girldfriends, and they "understand" having babies out of wedlock......and i m correct in stating that americans have made christianity into something different...as no christian priest from even 200 years ago could have called what americans practise as christianity.....
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But..
ThandyMazaq....
There are many versions of Christianity.
Perhaps the word christianity makes you think of Americans.
But..
Being a christian and being an American are two different topics.
I think maybe you made assumption in your initial post response. Not judging you here..often I have done same. People are human.
BTW... Did you know there are also American Muslims, Hindu, Buddists...etc.
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*Originally posted by sholay: *
ThandyMazaq is right. Christianity in America has found an identity of it's own. As long as you turn the other cheek and I'm not talking about the one on the face, you will be saved!
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Nice speech there sholay.
God forbid I say something that ugly.
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*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
But..
ThandyMazaq....
There are many versions of Christianity.
Perhaps the word christianity makes you think of Americans.
But..
Being a christian and being an American are two different topics.
I think maybe you made assumption in your initial post response. Not judging you here..often I have done same. People are human.
BTW... Did you know there are also American Muslims, Hindu, Buddists...etc.
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majority of americans call themselves christians, and besides i was talking about american christians....
well i had to talk about generalities, there might be people who follow christian doctrines pretty closely, but overwhelming majority of american chrisitans are like that...even you gotta admit that
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*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
majority of americans call themselves christians, and besides i was talking about american christians....
well i had to talk about generalities, there might be people who follow christian doctrines pretty closely, but overwhelming majority of american chrisitans are like that...even you gotta admit that
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Not trying to offend you here ThandyMazaq. You are entittled to your opinion.
I think the reason for the hate speech comment stem from the fact that the original topic created by armughal made no mention whatsoever of Americans.
The subsequent post by ahmadjee also made no mention of Americans.
Not all Americans are christians. All christians are not Americans.
Your are stereo-typing American Christians by those comments and stereo-typing IMHO is but a step toward bigotry.
Not trying to hurt you or judge you. Just wanting to help you to understand that.
Your broadly typing American Christians that way is the same kind of bigotry that Christian bigots use when they say that Muslims are terrorists.
Re: disciples of Jesus....
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Originally posted by armughal: *
**Quran 61:14*
O ye who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah? They said: We are Allah's helpers. And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved.* Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost.** *
what exactly does this refer to????
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If referring to Christians seems a complement. And also seemingly justifiable remark to dis the jewish people.
At first reading this...felt justified being raised catholic..as if .
the very earliest beginings of christianity.
Then it made me angry.
Darnit!!! Makes me angry.
Does God play games with his creatures? Does God play favorites?
Is God angry because his creatures are stupid to change?
Is God angry because people don't understand his messages?
Why does God strengthen one against the other.
That really pisses me off God.
Re: Re: disciples of Jesus....
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*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
That really pisses me off God.
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God is God....
He does what He Wills....
u and i r in no position to question Him for what He does....
and ofcourse he'd favor those who obey Him....
why shud he not????
Re: Re: Re: disciples of Jesus....
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
God is God....
He does what He Wills....
u and i r in no position to question Him for what He does....
and ofcourse he'd favor those who obey Him....
why shud he not????
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Your right armughal.
My thinking was wandering. It wandered to the point of wondering off into outerspace.
Who are Allah's helpers?
Who are those that obey him?
The jews think they are.
The christians think they are.
The muslims think they are.
Etc.
And thats where I wander. And thats what pisses me off.
And damn my bigotry also.
Re: Re: Re: Re: disciples of Jesus....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Who are Allah's helpers?
Who are those that obey him?
The jews think they are.
The christians think they are.
The muslims think they are.
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Quran 2:62
*Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. *
i understand where you are coming from, yes it may be stereotypical of me to say general statements, but i can only say what i have experienced, and thats what i have expereienced, now let me know what YOU belive in…if ur beliefs are different than that i listed then i will know there exists different christian beliefs than what i know of…
and about this ayah, i thikn it refers to the true believers in Jesus :as:
such as the companions of the cave, who were true believers, or some people among the jews who believed in him…