Dilemma thats killing me

MarriedSingle,

You have to understand that it is tough to undo years of dysfunctional upbringing. It takes time to make changes in one's lifestyle.

You asked if girls mature in marriage. You can't generalize all girls for being immature just because you have had a negative experience with one girl. Some girls are more mature than others. And people in general are not mature all the time.....I've noticed that we all can be mature and immature regarding various situations.

You told this girl that a lot of things in Pakistani culture are what Islam wants a wife to do. And your wife on the other hand feels that Pakistani culture can be oppressive towards women. YOU BOTH ARE RIGHT. Some things **in Pakistan culture are in accordance with Islamic teachings.......but there are **MANY ISSUES **in Pakistani culture that are **OPPRESSIVE toward women and are NOT **according to Islamic teachings. As I said YOU BOTH ARE RIGHT** regarding this issue. Look at the issues that are plaguing Pakistani society and you will find that many of them don't have any place in Islam. For example.....honor killings (where a daughter is killed by the men in her family for refusing a proposal or liking a guy). For example, the birth of son is thought as being more superior to the birth of a daughter. ** For example*, if a woman gets divorced she is considered shameful by society even if her husband is the guilty one. **For example, a son may be allowed to have a girl friend but if a girl likes a guy, her reputation is easily damaged. **For example, some parents refusing to allow their daughters to get higher education because they believe her only role is to be a housewife. **For example, some girls with a Master's Degree and job are rejected for rishtas because people think they are being too modern. **For example, how some innocent women who are raped in Pakistan have a hard time getting married because they are no longer virgin and have lost their reputation when it was not their fault to begin with. **For example*, many women are suffering domestic abuse at the hands of their in-laws.

MarriedSingle, at the same time yes you are right that our Pakistani culture also advocates Islamic values such as modesty, purdah, haya, and respect toward elders. But your wife is also right. Many of the injustices that are taking place in Pakistan are because our culture has some double standards about the treatment of men and women that have no place in religion.
**
Suggestions:** If you try to tell your wife that she is completely wrong in her views, you are not helping the situation. You need to understand that there are many angles in an argument and that her points can also be correct. When you have an argument with someone, you have to learn to compromise and see things from the other person's point of view. And if the other person has valid points, then you need to acknowledge them. A successful argument is one in which both people can listen to each others ideas. An unsuccessful argument is more likely to take place when one believes himself to be 100% right all the time and starts imposing their beliefs on others. And you won't accomplish anything in this manner. If you try seeing some issues from your wife's point of view and give her credit for being right about some things, she'll be more willing to listen.

*1) * Keep in mind that you can't force someone to change their beliefs. You can guide with kindness and hope that the person will embrace Islam from their heart and not out of fear from another person.

2) You have to have open communication with your wife. Ask her why she wants you separated from your parents. Ask her what she's afraid of regarding your parents. And ask her how SHE would feel if she someone told *HER * to break ties with her parents? And listen calmly to what she says and encourage her to think about what she is asking you to do.

3) Invite her to spend some time with YOUR PARENTS. If your parents show her kindness and warmth, maybe she will not be so afraid anymore and will realize that your parents are not a threat to her. ** *****Ask your family to take some steps in bonding with her....maybe that will soften her up toward your parents.*

4) *Focus on one step at a time. You can't expect someone to be a good muslim immediately after nikkah or in one day. Maybe for a period, you might want to focus on encouraging her gently to pray. The most important thing in Islam for a Muslim is to belive in the kalima and to fulfill the 5 pillars (namaz, fasting, zakat, etc). Does your wife at least pray namaz? Does she at least fast during Ramzan? Does she at least belive in Allah and His Messenger? If she is at least doing some of the basic requirements?............If she is doing some basics, then she is not a horrible Muslim. And with gentleness she might improve in these areas.
*

5) ** We all have our **different beliefs
about Oppression and society and culture. We can have our different opinions about issues and still have imaan in our religion. You can't change your wife's ENTIRE **way of thinking. Keep in mind that **husband and wife are unique individuals.....and they can have different opinions on issues such as culture, societal issues, and current events. Just because two people are married doesn't mean that they have to think exactly the same about everything.

6) When you see your wife doing something positive, praise and compliment her. This will encourage her to try her best for improvements. Constant lecturing will only make her turn away from you.
**
7) ** Sorry for the long post, but you had many issues in your post that I wanted to cover. Think about the above points I've made. And in the end, if you feel that your wife's personality is too incompatible for you.......then perhaps you should consider legal separation. But before you make a drastic decision such as divorce, try to save your marriage by acknowledging your wife's valid points in arguments, encouraging bonding between your parents and her, and showing her some flexibility instead of expecting her to to do a quick 360 degree change.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

[quote]
2) You have to have open communication with your wife. Ask her why she wants you separated from your parents. Ask her what she's afraid of regarding your parents. And ask her how SHE would feel if she someone told *HER * to break ties with her parents? And listen calmly to what she says and encourage her to think about what she is asking you to do.

6) When you see your wife doing something positive, praise and compliment her. This will encourage her to try her best for improvements. Constant lecturing will only make her turn away from you.
[/quote]

Redvelvet.. I agree with you completely !!!

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

I was fine up until the part where you said you had a good body

seriously, what's the point of even mentioning this?

LOL. Hmm.....I forgot about that point he made. You know what I think it is? I think he brought that point up to show us that he's not a hard-core extremist/fundamentalist type. An effort to portray a balanced image I suppose? That's my guess. Who knows.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

If someone truly was so balanced they wouldn't say it.

where's that quote? if u have to say your'e a lady, ur not?

I am banging my head against the wall for mentioning this lol. The msg I wanted to send accross was that if it sounded like I was some hardcore mullah with unislamic backward view of life, thats not me. I am normal like any young guy at the age of 26 is and who loves life.

sorry if sounded to CORny.

LOL. Yeah, that's a good point as well. It's kind like trying too hard isn't it? At the same time, some people try to predict what others might think about them so they try to i guess...clarify/cover possible ideas others might have. But I see your point clearly as well :)

About the lady point....if you're a lady and are standing in front of another person and screaming "hey i'm a lady"......either you're a very manly looking woman or you're (as you said) not a lady. But it's harder to determine gender based on screen names. (Poor Rupayhalwa is often assumed to be a man......and Fayax likes to play pretend he's Shabbo sometimes).

I just think that the poster needs to do some open communicating. His wife can be right about certain issues as well at times.

Jazakumallah Khairun for your since advice.

Inshallah I will try to follow these. Can I request you to make dua for me?

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

We all wish you the best in establishing a strong and successful relationship with your wife and finding some sense of direction regarding your issues, InshaAllah. :)

No. i meant this

[QUOTE]

                                                            "Being powerful is like being a  lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." Margaret Thatcher

[/QUOTE]

redvelvet,

May Allah reward you and everyone else for reading my life story. Also, May Allah accept all your duas and bless you and your family with a happy life ahead.

You were very specific on each of my issues which is amazing. The purpose of me posting here was simply to look for more guidance and playing devils advocate in dealing with my issues. Trust me, people who have heard her side of the story pity me as well. I am talking about people from her side and totally independent 3rd parties.

I am not expecting her to change but atleast accept Islamic sharia. I am not asking her to implement it but if she is rebellious, isn't that an issue in itself?

Communication is her main problem. I guess that can only happen once we live together. With so much happening right after nikah, we never opened up, atleast she couldn't. Which I understand. That is why I feel by living together we could learn more and find a middle ground inshallah.

I will try to be more patient and positive inshallah.

I suck at understanding females and for once I feel maybe if I had a girl friend, I might've played this role a little better(jus kidding astaghfirullah).

If you all can provide me with how do you as females love to be dealt with?

If you are married, what do you expect from your husband in order to foster a better relationshiip with him?

Anything in this regard is super beneficial.

Thank you Again!

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

One thing I forgot to mention.

Before nikah I asked her if it would be okay for her to do hijab at certain occasions and she said no wont be a problem.

I would like to know if how big of a deal is to do it for muslim females?

Can you give me some perspective here?

Thank you,

Every girl is different. I have seen some women wear hijab on their head and really tight clothes underneath. I've seen some women who cover their hair and wear proper clothes. I've seen some women who don't do hijab but they still dress modestly and conduct themselves in a respectful manner. And i've seen some women who don't do hijab and don't dress decently.

Every woman is different. Don't worry too much about what every other woman thinks. MashaAllah your wife has agreed to at least wear hijab for some occasions. And if she was not raised by her parents to wear hijab regularly.....then this is a big step for her and it's very admirable of her to cover hair for some occasions.

^ So, she's making an effort. Don't push her too hard. Praise her....and who knows....maybe soon she'll start realizing things on her own.

That sounds good. Inshallah, I will be patient.

Answering some of your questions from earlier posts, Yes, she prays regularly and tries to dress modestly. She does not go out much and has mostly decent friends. I would say she is more cultural pakistani muslim than a Muslim.

She attends Quran Khanis which I am not the biggest fan of but atleast she feels she is doing a good deed which is great mashallah. She did not ge the chance to be closer to masjid or listen to good lectures etc. since her family doesn't even pray Juma' at best.

For her conditions, she is probably a very good muslim. I spoke to her friend recently and in her view, she is the most pious girl ever. I guess relatively she is and Allah knows best. I do not question anyones piety, I just want her to be humble and open towards Islamic injunctions and be less tubborn in daily matters of life. Again, the reason I bring Islam is because I feel if we follow what Islam tells us to in our roles in life, many issues get solved automatically, subhanallah.

I just wish her Dad was, Allah guide him.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

May Allah make it easier for you in life.. insha'Allah!
with the perspective about hijaab in a womans' life is concerned.. then islamically there is no excuse for not wearing one. The punishment for it is severe and wearing a hijaab on some occasions doesnt make sense.. its like ill wear it and take it off? and wear it again?

Brother, family is something you stick by.. no matter what. & in my opinion if shes not willing to compromise n' let your family into her life and allowing them to share the love that they have for you.. then you definitely need to think twice. Would your parents be able to live without their son? having your parents in your life shouldnt effect the way she acts as a wife, mother, daughter in law.. then why is this such a concern.

I would definitely do Istekhaara. Ask Allah for Guidance and forgiveness. Insha'Allah i will make Duaa' for you aswell. I hope you get through this time in your life.

Soo many people,so many problems,Trust in Allah then there will be no problems at all.

Jazakumallah Khairun..

May Allah accept all your duas as well.

I feel I should have put my foot down regarding hijab the first day but I submitted to my parents wishes for the most part. The sad part is, there is no one in her life to tell her what I am trying to explain to her. I do not see any good influence whatsoever. I feel if I try, I might be the only person doing so.

But then I feel, am I backing out or running away from a test Allah has put me in. Maybe he wants me to make her follow his commands?

Sister, there is no way I am going to compromise over my parents rights. At first, I was ready to play things down but now I feel these things need to be resolved before we move in etc.

Sister,

Once we had some issues in the beginning, obviously due to her Dad, she went and had some babaji do an istikhara. He was no Aa'lim or even an imam, just some peer baba someone recommended, somewhere out there in an unknown place whom she called and asked him to do the istikhara. He told her it wasn't right for her to be with her husband and it freaked her out. That just screwed things over more and brought us to this state today.

I discussed this with the ulema and they said once the nikah was done, there was no Sharee reason to do an istikhara. It was her duty to be with her husband especially when he had been inviting her to move on with life.

Now, I discussed again with them and they say if she is willing to move on, then you should give her a chance and bring her to classes/lectures so she learns what her role is. That is my only option. I have firm belief in Allah and if she has a bit of love for his word, she might change.

Re: Dilemma thats killing me

Only Allah knows what is in somebody's heart. Maybe to you someone might only be a "cultural Pakistani Muslim" but in Allah's eyes she makes her small efforts with 100% sincerity.

She may not wear hijab all the time. She may not attend every Islamic lecture. She may not pray Jummah in masjid. BUT maybe when does sajda during her namaz, her heart is 100% sincere. Maybe when she opens the Quran.....her heart is pure.

Something to think about isn't it? Talking about things is not enough to change people. Actions speak louder than words. You both don't live together yet. If you lived together as husband and wife....you can demonstrate how to do things. Living together changes things.

I agree with MysticalRain....pray Istikhara. And maybe from the Istikhara you will get some guidance about what you should do (stay married or end things).