Did Jinnah really say anywhere that Pakistan is created under the banner of Islam and for Muslims of the sub continent? Or is this just a propaganda of our social studies teachers? Can someone with factual knowledge please shed some light.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
a guy who definitely drank alcohol and supposedly ate pork, could never have wanted an "Islamic" state, whatever the hell that is.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
maybe he wanted a mod muslim state ;)
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
wat separtes Pakistan from India is two- Nation theory (read it in ur Pak-studies book carefully, u may easily get the idea of wat i m talking about).
i m not aware of whether Jinnah spoon feed us that i m creating PAKISTAN (it mean land of PAK, given by Chaudary Rehmat Ali) under the banner of Islam or watever u call.
it was understood that Islam n Hinduism are 2 seperate religion n when brits gonna leave, they shouldnt be leaving just one country. (it wouldnt b fair for either of those 2 religion followers)
i dont have the source but i think Jinnah also asked Sikh to fight for their seperate state
well for dat Jinnah cant come to us. so for time being its totally up to u to decide (whether to spent time on past or gloryfying the future of Pakistan wid presenting ur strong n motivating ideology) 
hope it satisfyies u…but there r plenty other members here dat may give u crash course of PAK STUDIES
(kis nay kaha tha class may soo 
)
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
^ what a piece of crap so far.
Any knowledgable guppies who can tell what I actually want to hear. lol
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Jinnah's dead. Let him lie in peace. Pakistan is so far off from whatever he wanted, the question is moot.
One could simply get away from this question by saying that Jinnah would not dare contradict what the Prophet (pbuh) would have wanted for Pakistan.
To seriously answer the question; Jinnah did not clearly spell it out and gave contradictory speeches on the subject. Clearly not a state run by Mullahs, but clearly Islam was the religion of the state. That much is certain.
Islam being the majority religion is not coincidence; the TNT was predicated on a fear of Hindu domination which would threaten and possibly destroy Muslim culture and religion. Makes little to no sense to suggest that supplanting a Hindu tyranny with a secular one should make Muslims all ga-ga and thankful.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
i dont kow wat crap i mention...it will b better if u elaborate ur question bit more then.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Without sounding cliched..it depends on your definition of Islamic. What he definitely didn’t want is a theocratic state, knowledable secularists and liberals will cite his famous speech where he said: *You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. *
However, his distinct aim was the creation of a state where Muslims could practice their religion without fear. On the other hand barely a year after his death, Pakistan under Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan and at a time when many of Jinnahs closest friends were still alive, the constituent assembly passed the objective resolutionwhich stated:
- “Where as sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to God Almighty and authority that He has delegated to the state of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust…” (Binder, 1963, p.144).*
My own opinion is he wanted something that is fairly common as is..he wanted a Muslim state that was all inclusive to minorities.
p.s: he also wanted the army to be kept firmly under civilian control and was a passionate believer in the rule of law. while his democratic credentials were dubious as a Governor General, he seeked reconcilliation with former rivals like Ghaffar khan and Suhrawardy..but ill health and sabotage by some members of his own party.. pushed for further confrontation
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Jinnah's dead. Let him lie in peace..
Honestly there isn't much I can do to make him at peace or otherwise at this point. All I want to know is did he ever mention the creation of Pakistan solely for the muslims or under the banner of Islam? Or was it a country where people could practice religion without fear.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Excellent and objective piece from Zakk. Thank you sir.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
No is the answer, Jinnah never envisioned a theocracy. I have read widely about this great man. He wanted only a state where Muslims would be safe, this in a South Asian context meant a Muslim majority state.
His speeches make it clear he wanted a Pak where all men were equal under the law, thus a secular society.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Honestly there isn't much I can do to make him at peace or otherwise at this point. All I want to know is did he ever mention the creation of Pakistan solely for the muslims or under the banner of Islam? Or was it a country where people could practice religion without fear.
He called has made reference to an Islamic polity, and invoked Islam both pre and post Pakistan.
There is that one speech where he made it clear that religious minorities should have no fear, but the banner of Islam and the idea of Islam in danger were definitely invoked by him as part of the TNT and Pakistan movement.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
^ Then why in his first speech to the assembly after becoming the President on Aug 11, 1947 he did not mention Islam once? See the Famous Speech link quoted by Zakk.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
[quote]
His speeches make it clear he wanted a Pak where all men were equal under the law, thus a secular society.
[/quote]
Jinnah made it clear he wanted an Islamic welfare state , and never once used the term 'secular' to descibe it....
It was not meant to be secular, and the most honest assessment has it as some kind of mashup state, where Islam was firmly entrenched in the state but clearly not in a traditional sense.
TNT had no political theory behind it other than fear. It's foolish to suggest that the rather non-secular idea of TNT would be used as the basis for a secular state. Jinnah was not stupid, so perhaps this is the reason he never touched upon the issue.
But Pakistan, by it's very nature, was intended to have Islam within the state aparatus. There is no getting away from this.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
^ Then why in his first speech to the assembly after becoming the President on Aug 11, 1947 he did not mention Islam once? See the Famous Speech link quoted by Zakk.
Doesn't matter...he mentioned it plenty of times before...and the only way to discount that is to consider him a two-faced liar who only invoked religion to get what he wanted. I prefer not to think of him that way.
At no point during the speech did he define a role of religion within the state; nor did he use the term 'secular'...and yes, he knew of the term and exactly what it meant.
Also, that was 1947. Here's what the man said in 1948:
[quote]
You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve
[/quote]
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Jinnah is irrelevant...
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
^^
That's a bannable offence surely!
Jinnah is a Saint amontst the ummah, despite being practically an atheist.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
It is irrelevant to me (and to the debate i think) what Jinnah wanted. He's gone and forgotten. If the Islamists want to transform the country into an Islamic state through gradual, legal, democratic means, they have a right to do so,although i wouldn't want to live in the country under such circumstances. As long as they remain peaceful, they should be allowed to market their ideas and contribute to the political debate. However, whoever amongst them take law into their hands ebcause they can't ahieve enough public support for their cause (and they never will, trust me), deal with them quickly and the harshest way possible.
Forcing through government is not the only way to live in what they consider to be Islamic manner, unless you wnat to wage war against other countries and need govt control for that. Preach to public, and try to convince them through advice and example. Use the religious institutions' bubbling energy in positive ways, i.e., run a cleanliness movement instead of burn-the-public-property movement. Protect street lights instead of taking their anger out on them. engage in positive behavior, and they can win people's sympathies and achieve some support. Kill our fellow beings, threaten our sisters with acid for walking without a total burqa, and expect to be hanged!
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
Jinnah wanted a state for the muslims somewhat secular in nature where citizenship and rights would not be based on religion. I do not think he wanted to create a theocratic state.
Re: Did Jinnah mean to create a Islamic State?
why does it matter what jinnah wanted, figure out what most of the pakistanis want today? we have a confused generation parenting the children in this era.