Guys,
I have heard a lot about how pervaz is a dictator, and all. i have a thought here that i would like you guys to comment on. NOT ME the thought plz
I do not know enought details to have an opinion on Bhutto, but i have heard of an incident when apparently bhutto was walkin past somone (i think a pn) and he passed a comment regarding khilaphat. Bhutto turns around and asks the person “do you know what khilafat is?” he then answers his question by saying “a kaliph is a dictaror, and khilaphat is dictatorship”.
excuse me if i don;t remember the exact details of the incident. I am trying to get the essence here…
point that i am trying to get to is
what are your views about kaliph being a dictator?
secondly,
do you think a democracy can work in a country with literacy rate of 27%?
Democracy as far as i think, though a very nice tool, is very idealistic and can prevail in the best form only in Utopia (i dont mention Camelot as kimg Arthur happens to be a 'dictator'). It has failed in nations where there is illiteracy and corruption. So hoping to have a good democratic system work perfectly in a nation with a stagnant 20 something percent litercay rate is outragous.
as far as the Bhutto incident is concerned, i have no knowledge of it. but i do know that Bhutto, though a proclaimed flag bearer of democracy was himself a dictator at heart. he ran the 'democratic' govt in a fairly dictator like way.
If Khalaafat is dictatorship, we have even more proof that democracy is useless and idealistic. the practical form of governance should be like khalafat with the power in one mans hands who is answerable to a council and the public alike, who can bring him down at any time, and not in the hands of a group of few men whom no one can bring down no matter what good or evil they keep doing, due to their strong evil alliances.
extending that thought, perhaps even the American presidential system is better than the parliamenterian democratic systems.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kiyani: *
Guys,
I have heard a lot about how pervaz is a dictator, and all. i have a thought here that i would like you guys to comment on. NOT ME the thought plz
I do not know enought details to have an opinion on Bhutto, but i have heard of an incident when apparently bhutto was walkin past somone (i think a pn) and he passed a comment regarding khilaphat. Bhutto turns around and asks the person "do you know what khilafat is?" he then answers his question by saying "a kaliph is a dictaror, and khilaphat is dictatorship".
excuse me if i don;t remember the exact details of the incident. I am trying to get the essence here...
point that i am trying to get to is
what are your views about kaliph being a dictator?
secondly,
do you think a democracy can work in a country with literacy rate of 27%?
post your views...
[/QUOTE]
OK First Tings First, Pakistan's present literacy rate is projected to be about 52.76 per cent (www.un.org).
Secondly if democracy can work in Turkey and in Malaysia and Indonesia then i am certian that with the correct mix of Socio-Political and Economic Grounds Pakistan can archive full democracy and end myths about MUSHY being a Dictat!
^ yeah and benazir, nawaz who won elections every time through rigging with their party activists filling up ballot boxes (as claimed by the losing party each time) is real democracy.
face it yaar, we've never had democracy nor are we in the designs to deserve it in the next 50 yrs.
MUSH RULES!
President General Pervez Musharraf is the constitutional head of state of Pakistan, and all his acts and orders since 12 October 1999 have been legally validated by the LFO, and the 17th amendement to the constitution. Some people should try reading the constitution of Pakistan, which they keep preaching to us about…
I once posted a story on this forum about a Baba who commanded respect in the village. All the villagers use to go to Baba for his advice and blessings and shower him with offerings. The Baba had the habit of keeping a gun handy all the time. When a visitor to the village saw the respect Baba commanded in the village he was surprise to see gun with Baba. He asked him when everyone had so much of respect for you, why do you need to keep a gun. Baba smiled and told him I keep this gun so that I continue to command respect.
Musharraf cannot possibly be considered a dictator, because neither he now his administration can pass laws by diktat alone- laws must go through a fair parliamentiary procedure. Evidence of this is how he and Jamali are increasingly dependent on the MMA in order to pass laws and thus give direction to the country.
He may not be freely elected to his post, but he has placed powerful check on his own position to prevent him from having the power to be a dictator.
You can't deny that he ruled by diktat and hence was a dictator for his initial years in power. But now, he is no longer in a position to do that kind of thing.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *
^ yeah and benazir, nawaz who won elections every time through rigging with their party activists filling up ballot boxes (as claimed by the losing party each time) is real democracy.
face it yaar, we've never had democracy nor are we in the designs to deserve it in the next 50 yrs.
MUSH RULES!
[/QUOTE]
you;re right,we haven't had real democracy for a long while, but that still doesn't mean mush is not a dictator.
Malik73,
wow, thanks alot for the link! i had no ideathe constitution was available online. infact i had been trying to get a copy from somewhere and for once actually read what it had in it. thanks again. great post!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
you;re right,we haven't had real democracy for a long while, but that still doesn't mean mush is not a dictator.
[/QUOTE]
DUDE! How is mushy a dictator>? He ordered a refferendum and announced his views on national telivions... I think you need to look at Mugabe and Zafi to see what disctators are actually like....
Refernedum where government employees were bused to the polling staions and forced to vote for him on taxpayers expense? 99% in favour of mush, give me a break.
The parliment is full of lotas, anything can get by them if musharraf's thapa is on it.
Musharraf is a dictator who got his actions passed by a rubber stamp parliament under threat. This is not called democracy. I suppot him generally and think he is doing good for Pakistan, but democrat he certainly is not. If he is a democrat than so are all the middle east governments.
What a joke. The so called parliament was formed through blatant pre-poll and post-poll rigging. He banned some people for corruption but allowed others in even when they had murder cases on their name. Many were on ECL but became “clean” after they turned into lotaz. Anyone, with any background, however terrible, became clean after agreeing to support Musharraf. “Fair parliamentiary procedure” my foot.
After what happened to Javed Hashmi and the thrashings that Musharraf opponents received (like Rana Sanaullah) for merely expressing views against Musharraf make it clear as to how fair the system is. If you support Musharraf, murderers walk free, if not, you go to jail.
The whole MMA - Musharraf fight thing is a drama. The mullahs would have never received 20% of the vote were it not for PML(N) and PPP being so blatantly set aside. They know that, that is why they agreed to the LFO.
There has not been one important decision that was taken since Musharraf took power that did not involve Musharraf’s wishes as the main factor.
Well, he is a dictator, but not a brutal one, like Zia. He was literally dragged into the power circles, thanks to Mr. Nawaz Shareef, who was busy digging his own grave. The referundum was nothing more than a big drama, atleast it wasnt as bad as the one Zia carried out. He let Nawaz go, rather than hanging him. So all in all, Musharraf is a refined and acceptable version of Zia. Like Musharraf, Zia was also very loyal to the Americans, but in the end he had to suffer a sad death. Lets hope Musharraf's future isnt like that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kiyani: *
But what is better for pakistan?
dictatorship or democracy?
[/QUOTE]
Lets put it this way, Nawaz and Bhutto were worse in thier democratic regiemes than musharaff is in his so called Dictate over Pakistani democracy!
As for people beliving that he is a dictator, thats just rubbish! I Love the guy and hope he carry's on to become our Civil President. Just look at the changes hes made for pakistan.
