Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

@Ibn_Sadique

What’s nonsensical about the name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?

Your query has been answered from Muslim’s perspective, of course it’s going to at variance to what you believe - and you have the right to believe what you want. We want our beliefs to be in line with the Quran and the ahadith - nothing more nothing less.

Nothing wrong with the name. Your baseless argument about why I refer Him as Hazrat Ahmad(as) is honestly very silly.

My query has not been answered. If it has, you dont need to write it all over again. Simply refer me the post number and ill go read it myself. Thanks.

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

@Bigboi

Peace Psyah,

you are Stubborn. There were no new interpretations. Jihad against what? You say you know Arabic and still make a fool of yourself and fool others, too. Khatam does not mean last and you know that, but still you fool us. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam (as) Ahmad never denied Miracles. Why don’t you present the facts instead of baseless arguments.

Peace Bigboi

Actually there is a Lahori Ahmadi scholar … Who has translated the Qur’an into English … his translations inspired the works of eminent people like Marmaduke Picthall …and in a strange way most current English translations are in debt to his scholarly piece …

As we all know the Lahoris do not consider MGAQ as a prophet …

A shaykh from these days Hamza Yusuf Hanson … Has spoken about this term Khatam … And stated that the common recitation in hafs of the word is Khatam = seal … But in the warsh recitation the same word is pronounced Khatim = last …

They are both complementary and both are correct … But if only MGAQ knew that there is another meaning outside the hafs qirat.

Verse 33:40 in Warsh by Sh. Abdul Basit … Listen!

Goto 4minutes

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

@Mr.Popat

Nothing wrong with the name. Your baseless argument about why I refer Him as Hazrat Ahmad(as) is honestly very silly.

My query has not been answered. If it has, you dont need to write it all over again. Simply refer me the post number and ill go read it myself. Thanks.

Peace **Bigboi ** Calling him Ahmad is just plain devious - He claimed to be Hindu Lord Krishna - You can call him that too - and wait for Hindu reaction

Bigboi we are on public platform – viewers are smart. They can judge that by you calling Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as Ahmad is sheer deviousness.

Try seeing my post No. 255

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/562810-details-of-interpreting-verses-from-the-quran-and-obvious-blunders-13.html#post9037351

You can put your questions again here and I will respond from Islamic/Muslim perspective.

@Bigboi

Yes, Allah can do what he wants, but it goes against his wisdom to take someone into the Heaven and let him live there for 2000 years. Plus, you mentioned the Jews. The Jews are waiting for the Messiah, too. What you gonna do with them? Snap the Messiah away from them, if he should arrive? I see a big fight coming.

What evidence do you have to claim “it goes against his wisdom to take someone into the Heaven and let him live there for 2000 years”?

How can you speak for His Wisdom without any evidence? Leave your psuedo rationality in your pocket - it won’t work here.

Yes the Jews have been waiting for the Messiah, too, when they see the real one, many among them will follow him. But Jews be very haughty people vast majority will side with army of Dajjal.

History proves so, Prophet Muhammad (saw)’s time many Jewish scholars recognized the Blessed Prophet (saw) and accepted Islam at his hands but being haughty and arrogant majority did not follow him.

Why do we have to snap the Messiah from the Jews?

@Bigboi

I see a big fight coming.

Yes, you must have heard of Armageddon

@Bigboi

People who are dead will only be raised at the day of Judgement and not before. Isa (as) revived people to life who were spiritual dead, blind and deaf with Allah’s will. Nothing to get excited about really.

Give me and authentic hadith from Prophet Muhammad (saw) – I mean the real Prophet Muhammad (saw) no shadows zillis cloned types to prove what you claim.

Read the said ayah again - Forget what MGAQ has said to you - read it for yourself.

,,and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said: This is nothing but clear enchantment. [5:110]

We do not need new re-interpretation.

Read the following ayah and reflect - Fear Allah (swt)! Don’t twist His words

He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.** Al Imran: ayah 7
**

[Mr.Popat]

Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

If I open up a new thread on 2 verses, can I expect a reply from you, Ibn Sadique?
At the moment, nothing that you write is important enough till you explain me or point at me where I went wrong in explaining those verses. After that, you may ask anything and ill answer. Thanks.

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

It's better we carry on this thread - because I may have to refer to some of your/my earlier statements on this thread. I hope you read my post 255. If you had any problems there come out with them on this thread.

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Bigboi - you have not responded to my post ... You said that the term "Khatam" does not mean "last" ... I say that it does imply that, but even if I agree with you ... "Khatim" does mean "Last" - and the same verse 33:40 when read in hafs - is "Khatam" but in warsh it is "Khatim" ...

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

@Ibn_Sadique

This is very obvious, Mr MGAQ will reject and throw them in to the waste bin:

1. All the ahadith about Imam Mahdi (ra) – That he will be from Prophet’s (saw) progeny through Imam Hassan (ra) and that his name will be Muhammad Ibn Abdullah.

2. All the ahadith with regards to Hz Isa Ibn Maryum (as) – His taken up alive, his descent in Damascus, his war against Dajjal, and his being buried next to the Prophet (saw) when he eventually dies.

3. All the ahadith that No prophet will be appointed after the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and only imposters will lay claim to Prophet hood

4. All the ahadith that prove him to be a liar and an imposter.

The argument i’ve always put in front of you is about the case of Isa a.s. I have shown you verses from Quran and explained them to you how they prove the death of Jesus. Yet, you do not like to talk about it at all.

1. You’re taking it literally. The trait of jews. The entire ummah is of Muhammad PBUH. Imam mahdi is obviously going to be from the progeny (ummah) of Muhammad pbuh. There has only been one Muhammad PBUH, the greatest prophet of all time. Imam Mahdi a.s being his follower will adapt His name. One of his name is Ahmad. To say that imam mahdi name will also be Muhammad and his father name being Abdullah is like saying He will be the ‘second’ coming of or shadow of, or subordinate of Muhammad pbuh, to which you have serious issues with. But lets not even talk about the name.. thats not even important for me. Honestly, its not. I want you to defend your baseless belief of Isa a.s’s ascension and him being alive.

2. theres no hadith of him taken up alive. Quran declares him dead. Hadith indicates his death. Ibn e maryam is whats told in hadith who will ‘descent’ (NOT return , as theres a difference ), and Ibn e Maryam is a quality / sift. It does not mean the literal son of mary will appear, but the like of Ibn e maryam, who will have the sift or quality of being Ibn e Maryam ( same allegations will be put on him, his prophecy would be questioned, he will not be bringing new shariyah, he a.s will be a peace loving person.. and such qualities that was of Isa Ibn e Maryam ). Some ahadith do call him as Isa ibn e Maryam, which simply means that he has been named as Isa by God. Isa a.s sent to bani israel has died long ago. Infact, some hadith differentiate the physical features of Isa a.s sent to bani israel and Ibn e Maryam that will be coming in Muhammadi shariyah. Do look everything in its entirety before coming up with a conclusion.

3. Wrong. Isa a.s will be ‘after’ Muhammad PBUH. There is ONE person you also are waiting for who WILL be a true one and that too AFTER Muhammad PBUH. So kindly think before you write.

Popat – above points have been dealt with very tirelessly and diligently by brother Pysah, it’s only you that is in Obstructionist mode. You are constrained by your Cultist beliefs to agree with **brother Pysah.
**
Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum’s (as) being alive in heaven and coming in later days is death blow to Ahmadiyyat Cult.

Dead Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum’s (as) serves Ahmadiyyat Cult well; then only MGAQ can lay claim to prophet hood!

You think that you are on to something very big but you are certainly not.

Sure. Thats what it is. Show me and prove to me from Quran and ahadith that Isa a.s IS ALIVE and HAS gone to heaven and WILL be coming back with the same body. Show me from Quran and hadith. Make sure whatever verse you present does not contradict another verse in Quran. You prove me this, and I’m certainly with you.

Yes. Death of one testifies of someone else coming. It could not have been Hazrat Ahmad (as), but could have been someone else, who knew it was Him? When your brother is invited to your aunt’s place and he doesnt go, but you go instead of him. You give the reason to your aunt why he could not come ( because he was stuck in traffic or whatever ) , and then your appearance there make sense. It’s just a very general example.. point of me writing it is to make you understand. Nothing too fancy of an example. You explain me how Isa a.s was raised above, is still living and will come back.. and thats it. You will find me joining you. I have no intention of following something wrong knowingly. I have to die one day too and answer to God too. It be nice if you could help me out here.

This has nothing to do with Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as)‘death’ – In fact this rejects the Christians claim for Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum’s (as) divinity! Allah (swt) is telling the Christians that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as)** will also die** like other previous messengers had died.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Leave your pseudo rationality aside.

You’re playing with words. Read the verse again. It says that Messiah was just a messenger like any other. Messengers like him have passed away. You are telling me this means… >> He a.s was a messenger like others.. others passed away, but he still has not passed away.

I’m telling you this as an example >> Harry is just a human being. Humans do make mistakes.
This is the conclusion you are coming up with >>> Because humans make mistake and Harry is a human, therefore Harry cannot make mistake
This is what i’m saying > Because Harry is also a human being, and humans make mistakes, therefore Harry also made mistake.

Just using your brain for 5 seconds would tell you that the meaning is that Isa a.s died like any other prophet before him, because he himself was one like them.

You tried to run away from this really quick it seems. Nothing more and nothing less? Was it that easy ?

This ayah too negates the divinity of Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) and his mother (ra).

Allah (swt) is telling the Christians that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) and his mother (ra) used to eat food which is necessary and essential human need and that Allah (swt) does not eat.

Popat the sentence is in past tense, If I say the Popat used to play for Chelsea does that mean you are not playing any more.

They both used to eat food. Yes, they do not eat food anymore. Because they do not eat food and have died, therefore, neither Isa a.s nor Mary can be taken as God.

I used to play for “Chelsea”. I DO NOT play for “Chelsea” anymore. Verse does not say which kind of food they used to eat. If you were to say that I used to ‘play’. It means I do not play anymore.

If the verse had said that they both used to eat Kabaab. It would mean, they still eat, but they just do not eat kabaab. But the verse says that they both used to eat food. Just like how I used to ‘play’ ( not cricket or not playin for chelsea ). It means I do not play.. and i do not play anything.. nothing at all.

Who is saying that Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) is not eating now? ??

We, Muslims, believe as the Quran says that Allah (swt) has taken him up to Himself. Allah (swt) is the Razzaq and providing Rizq (food) to Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) is in Allah (swt) domain. You don’t have to worry about it.

Allah (swt) took Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) to Himself so let Him cater as He wants to , it bothers Him not whether you believe it or not.

But wait, Allah says they used to eat. Now why are you telling me that God is still keeping them alive? They do not eat anymore. Allah is Razzaq. He gives food to those alive. Someone who used to eat does not eat anymore and someone who does not eat dies.

Refer to the following ayat:

7:19 Waya adamu oskun anta wazawjuka aljannata fakula min haythu ****uma wala taqraba hathihi alshshajarata fatakoona mina alththalimeena

Fakula in Arabic means “so eat”

And (We said): O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden; so eat from where you desire, but do not go near this tree, for then you will be of the unjust. 7:19]

You are confused. They ate in heaven..ok .. and they ate on Earth too. What is it you’re trying to say ? No where in this verse it says that adam and even ‘used to eat’ or ‘used to eat in heaven’ ( which would mean that they no longer ate IN heaven but probably on Earth ).

They ate in heaven.. then they ate on Earth. What is the point you’re trying to make ? :S

Hz. Adam (as) and his wife used to eat when they were in Heaven, Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum is lodged in Heaven too, so he eats whatever Hz. Adam (as) and his wife ate.

You’re making it up. It doesnt say they used to eat. Even if according to you it says they used to eat in heaven, it would mean they no longer eat in heaven, but somewhere else. If it said like ‘they used to eat’ , then it would mean they do not eat no matter where they are, heaven or on Earth. Verse above is not relevant.

I am giving you Ahmadi translation of ayah 7:19 and commentary on it.

And when WE said `O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in the garden, and eat therefrom plentifully where ever you will, but approach not this tree, least you be of the wrongdoers.’ (Sher Ali 7:19)

Again..same thing. So they ate in heaven,then they ate on Earth. Where is the ‘they used to eat’ or ‘they used to eat in heaven’ ?

The Holy Quran

Note 68: The word Jannah (garden) occurring in this verse does not refer to Heaven or Paradise but simply to the garden-like place where Adam was first made to live. It cannot refer to Heaven: first because it was on the Earth that Adam was to live (2:37); secondly, Heaven is a place from which no one, who once enters it, is ever expelled (15:49), while Adam was made to the Jannah (garden) spoken in this verse. This shows that the Jannah (garden) in which Adam first dwelt was aplace on this very Earth which was given this name on account of the fertility of its soil and the abundance of its verdure……….

See how Ahmadis misinterpret the Quran to meet the agenda of their cult. So Adam was not living in heaven???

lol, theres no agenda whatsoever. Where Adam lived and stuff has nothing to do with the ascension of Isa a.s. Belief of adam is also another topic. We can have discussion on that but thats not gona help this debate of ascension of jesus.
Thanks.
Hope you’re having a blessed Ramadan. Keep yourself busy in prayers. Keep me in your prayers as well..and take your time before answering my post. Thank you.

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Mr.Popat

Can you provide us the family tree of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad going back to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ... It should be fairly easy and will not constitute more than 40 to 60 generations.

[Mr.Popat]

Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

peace psyah,
That is not necessary. You are forgetting about a hadith in which holy prophet said if imaan was to go up to skies (no, not literally), someone from the progeny of Hz sulemam farsi r.a will surely bring it back.
Also, i am just as same of a progeny of Muhammad pbub as you or any Muslim is and same goes for Hz Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as).
You do not find an english person always teaching english language. Any one can have a better grip on english language then any of the english man.
Someone can revert to islam and be a better muslim than someone who is born a muslim.
No arab has superiorty over non arab or non arab having superiority over arab except on thr basis of Taqwa.
Allah chooses whomsoever he pleases. Theres no asking him about why him, why at this time, which location etc. Prophethood is a blessing. It is Allah's ways..
I dont think that question was important anyway. Why dont you comment on the verses i explained to you? That would be a better idea.

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

peace psyah, That is not necessary. You are forgetting about a hadith in which holy prophet said if imaan was to go up to skies (no, not literally), someone from the progeny of Hz sulemam farsi r.a will surely bring it back. Also, i am just as same of a progeny of Muhammad pbub as you or any Muslim is and same goes for Hz Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as). You do not find an english person always teaching english language. Any one can have a better grip on english language then any of the english man. Someone can revert to islam and be a better muslim than someone who is born a muslim. No arab has superiorty over non arab or non arab having superiority over arab except on thr basis of Taqwa. Allah chooses whomsoever he pleases. Theres no asking him about why him, why at this time, which location etc. Prophethood is a blessing. It is Allah's ways.. I dont think that question was important anyway. Why dont you comment on the verses i explained to you? That would be a better idea.

Mr. Popat you said "Imam mahdi is obviously going to be from the progeny (ummah) of Muhammad pbuh" - You have conveniently reinterpreted this to mean "ummah" ... This is not true - had the word been "ummah" the hadith would have used that word ... Imam Mahdi will be from the "house" (Bait) of RasoolAllah (SAW) ... To avoid it you have included this ummah interpretation and yet your own beliefs are that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is from the progeny of Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW).

I've done my job, you can't possibly demonstrate that ... Now, here is my real point ...

You believe the Second Coming of Isa (AS) should be taken as a metaphor for the Messiah status to be given to another person ... You also believe this other person is al-Mahdi and you believe he is from the Ummah of RasoolAllah (SAW) ... You believe he was born to an Indian family, in and Indian tribe ... You also argue that the original Isa (AS) went to Kashmir to teach the "lost tribes of Israel" - which cannot be ratified by significant data on Jewish diaspora anyway ... May be those lost tribes are metaphorically part of the progeny of Israel too ...

The return of the Messiah you say would be unfair if he came to the Ummat of RasoolAllah (SAW) rather than the Ummat of Israeel (AS) ... but that is exacly what you claim happened albeit in the form of another person, who himself is neither from the Arabs nor the Jews ... Is that not even greater in unfairness?

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Mr.Popat

Your discussion on eating in heaven or earth or used to eat or not eating and where they were eating ... is really really pointless ... Allah (SWT) is The Sustainer - Food is not required to keep us alive - if you think that then you do not share our 'aqeedah and that is the point where all further discussions fall apart.

Do you believe that Allah (SWT) can keep us alive without food or water forever and anywhere either on Earth or in Heaven?

If you say no ... then the discussion stops here ...

[Bigboi]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

@Psyah,

can you please tell me what warsh means and please also show me one example of a man or woman who has survived without water and food for more than 2 weeks.

@Shardmanny,

I asked you when and where I said B******s?

First you people speak of a Just Ruler and in the same line Armageddon is coming.

[Bigboi]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

'Your age, your life span is your capital. Don’t waste it for no return, for no benefit, for no revenue.''

• Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi Hafizullah Ta'ala

Isa (as) is an exception? How? I do not want to hear that Miracle story...
Isa (as) wasted his capital I conclude. Same like saying Isa (as) died for mankind.

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

'Your age, your life span is your capital. Don’t waste it for no return, for no benefit, for no revenue.''

• Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi Hafizullah Ta'ala

Isa (as) is an exception? How? I do not want to hear that Miracle story... Isa (as) wasted his capital I conclude. Same like saying Isa (as) died for mankind.

Peace Bigboi

My Shaykh is talking about the time we have in the world should be invested by doing good deeds ... That is the benefit ... Now you conclude Isa (AS) wasted his capital? What a shameless thing to say ...Isa (AS) sent as a servant of Allah ... His whole life was for the religion ... Good deeds galore ... To even say as such is embarrassing for me ... He (AS) is a prophet of Allah (SWT) ...

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

@Bigboi

@Psyah,

can you please tell me what warsh means and please also show me one example of a man or woman who has survived without water and food for more than 2 weeks.

.

Bigboi please watch those videos and you will see exactly what Warsh is …
I’ll show you an example of a people who survived without food … But why ask for the example … Your disbelief in the Power of Allah (SWT) is amazing. When the people asked how resurrection can take place and taunted about many matters … Seeking to be given special displays of miracles … Surely the concept of Allah (SWT) and what He does and does not do should be ingrained in you … How can you ask for this as though suspect whether Allah (SWT) can or cannot do something …

Go to the accounts of the Companions of the Cave …

Seven Sleepers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having fallen asleep inside the cave, they purportedly awoke approximately 300–309 years later during the reign of Theodosius II,

[Bigboi]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Bigboi

My Shaykh is talking about the time we have in the world should be invested by doing good deeds ... That is the benefit ... Now you conclude Isa (AS) wasted his capital? What a shameless thing to say ...Isa (AS) sent as a servant of Allah ... His whole life was for the religion ... Good deeds galore ... To even say as such is embarrassing for me ... He (AS) is a prophet of Allah (SWT) ...

yes, Jesus came, did not even complete his mission and was raised to heaven. This is what you are saying. So it was a waste according to your logic. So you say that he was a Prophet and then downgrade him to a simple follower of Muhammad (saw). I think this makes perfect sense to you.

I do not disbelieve in the power of Allah, but I simply don't believe that Isa (as) will come back and kill the swine in the sense of your understanding. According to the Torah it is Haram for a believer of the Torah to even touch the swine. How you have downgraded Isa (as) is out of mind. This noble Prophet has nothing better to do than breaking the cross, as if the Christians will not be able to produce 2 million more.

Come on Brother, rethink this.

I heard what Sheikh Hamza Yusuf said, but in the same time he says not to read the Books of the Ahmadiyya Muslims Jamaat. This is coming from a reowned Scholar? You remember those people to whom I said "How can you judge a Book (The Holy Qur'an) even if you haven't read it?"

This is unfair. Why not atleast read it and then speak? How many Books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) have you read? Did you read all his 80 + Books? I'm not speaking about the 2-3 pages which have been cut out of the book, out of the context to prove that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is a imposter, liar, nauzobillah.

This is what the Non-Muslims also do with the Holy Qur'an. They cut pages and verses to their own likings and then attack the Holy Qur'an. They say it it commands to kill disbelievers, it says not to befriend Jews and Christians, just to create confusion, disorder and chaos.

In their Hearts you will find perversity. You should know, the Holy Qur'an Chapter Al Imran, Verse 7 comes into my mind. I'm done for now. It's late here.

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

yes, Jesus came, did not even complete his mission and was raised to heaven. This is what you are saying. So it was a waste according to your logic. So you say that he was a Prophet and then downgrade him to a simple follower of Muhammad (saw). I think this makes perfect sense to you.

Peace Bigboi

This is my belief regarding Isa (AS) make a note of it and refer to it, copy paste it, but please don't make up stuff that I believe this or that ...

Isa (AS) had two missions ... The first one was to guide the Jews to the righteous way. He provided them a slight modification but more importantly he wanted them to balance their materialism with spirituality. His mission was to guide them ... That is what he (AS) did ...

The second coming is his second mission where he (AS) will kill Dajjal, align the Muslims and a number of other things, such as supplicate against the Yajuj Majuj.

I believe Isa (AS) was victorious in his first mission and will be so in his second ... The victory of Isa (AS) is his being saved from the humiliation of the cross and his victory was his life ... Where he guided a select people to his way ... His teachings lived on until the time of RasoolAllah (SAW) and people accepted Muhammad (SAW) because of their being familiar with the message of Isa (AS) ...

The rank of being a follower of Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) is indeed high ... This is the best ummah out of all the prophets and Isa (AS) will be honoured by his return because he wil get the allegiance of the Muslims ... And in turn he (AS) will be the best of the followers of Muhammad (SAW) ... There is no downgrading here ... I think you forget the rank of our prophet Muhammad (SAW) ...

[Bigboi]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Bigboi

This is my belief regarding Isa (AS) make a note of it and refer to it, copy paste it, but please don't make up stuff that I believe this or that ...

Isa (AS) had two missions ... The first one was to guide the Jews to the righteous way. He provided them a slight modification but more importantly he wanted them to balance their materialism with spirituality. His mission was to guide them ... That is what he (AS) did ...

The second coming is his second mission where he (AS) will kill Dajjal, align the Muslims and a number of other things, such as supplicate against the Yajuj Majuj.

I believe Isa (AS) was victorious in his first mission and will be so in his second ... The victory of Isa (AS) is his being saved from the humiliation of the cross and his victory was his life ... Where he guided a select people to his way ... His teachings lived on until the time of RasoolAllah (SAW) and people accepted Muhammad (SAW) because of their being familiar with the message of Isa (AS) ...

The rank of being a follower of Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) is indeed high ... This is the best ummah out of all the prophets and Isa (AS) will be honoured by his return because he wil get the allegiance of the Muslims ... And in turn he (AS) will be the best of the followers of Muhammad (SAW) ... There is no downgrading here ... I think you forget the rank of our prophet Muhammad (SAW) ...

Oh and you have a free ticket to make up stuff what I believe in and what not? There is downgrading, because he was Prophet of Bani Israel. You downgrade his Prophethood to a simple follower of Prophet Muhammad (saw). And how you come up with your last sentence, me not knowing the rank of Muhammad Mustafa (saw) is really out of my mind. How come now you make up stuff?

Plus, did you read all the books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as)? Why do I have to ask you twice, thrice to get an answer to crucial key points?

[psyah]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Oh and you have a free ticket to make up stuff what I believe in and what not? There is downgrading, because he was Prophet of Bani Israel. You downgrade his Prophethood to a simple follower of Prophet Muhammad (saw). And how you come up with your last sentence, me not knowing the rank of Muhammad Mustafa (saw) is really out of my mind. How come now you make up stuff?

Plus, did you read all the books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as)? Why do I have to ask you twice, thrice to get an answer to crucial key points?

Peace Bigboi

Being a member of this ummah is not downgrading ... Being the hope that will unify the Muslims and establish Islam across the planet is not downgrading! Being the one to destroy the Dajjal is not downgrading. If you want to say that it is to justify your own belief then feel free to continue doing so ...

[Bigboi]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

Peace Bigboi

Being a member of this ummah is not downgrading ...

Ok, leave this. I'm talking to a brick wall.

Ibn Sadique said to me this is a public forum and everyone can watch. Everyone is watching me asking you twice before if you have read all Books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as)? Can I have an answer please?