Details of interpreting verses from the Qur'an and obvious blunders

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Details of interpreting verses from the Qur’an and obvious blunders

@psyah

Peace Mr.Popat

Ok, so now you have changed the definition of the verse yet again … First, it was “therein you shall live”, which according to you means “NO ONE can live outside the Earth” , now you are giving further qualification, and interpretation by saying, “no HUMAN can live outside the Earth”,

you seriously want me to take your version as a mere reading? You are clearly confused and reinterpreting upon each hurdle.

Post # 8 >> This is what i wrote >>

Peace,
No. As far as I know, I’m infact referring to Qur’an. You cannot call anything that I’m saying as my reasoning alone.
Established beliefs based on what ? This is what Quran says..
7:25 : He said, ‘Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and therefrom shall you be brought forth.
Earth it is wherein humans shall live. Lets talk about life for now.. In order for a person to remain alive**, he must be on Earth. Lets also not talk about the longevity of life. To live, we must be present on Earth. There is no life outside of it.

Post # 19 >> I further said >>

This verse proves that a human being, even if he is a prophet cannot live outside of Earth.
This verse is not in response to sayin that he went to heavens or not.. but rather pointing at you that how can He be living and not be on earth at the same time? where will this verse go? You tell me I pick and choose, but I say you do, because you do not want to see anything else that disturbs your beliefs.

Like I said, i know you’re frustrated. But this is no way of falsely accusing me that i’m interpreting it differently in diff posts. I’ve said it all along that i’m talking about HUMANS. I purposely told you to read a verse before 7:24 to understand what Allah is talking about. You cannot say that i’ve changed my stance on anything. Read everything when i write it. Thanks.

@psyah

Let me refer back to the ‘Al Islam’ website …

**Jam-'i-him is the Arabic expression in this verse which specifically speaks of bringing together of life on earth and the life elsewhere. When this meeting of the two will take place is not specified, nor is it mentioned whether it will happen here on earth or elsewhere. One thing however, is definitely stated: this event will most certainly come to pass whenever God so desires.

**The website clearly believes there is a possibility of Man living outside the Earth … I agree with them too … Let’s look at verse 55:33 again …

In that paragraph, what you missed which was right after where you stopped was :

It should be kept in mind that the word jama’ can imply either a physical contact or a contact through communication. Only the future will tell how and when this contact will take place, but the very fact that more than fourteen hundred years ago such a possibility was even predicted is miraculous in itself.
Scientists have still not been able to completely shake off their earlier scepticism regarding the existence of life in space. No definitive evidence has as yet been discovered in its support. Scientists are still talking of only ‘chances’.

Again, the book does not deny the possibility of some other form of living anywhere else. The contact with humans with some other speicies living somewhere else COULD be either physical OR through communication. Physical again in a sense that if humans tend to search for them in space, they’ll have to take earthly temperature, food and everything else to remain alive ! You’re just trying to divert the whole discussion here. Everything I’m saying is again in parallel to the website. You are confusing yourself when you say that the website believes the possibility of “MAN” living outside of earth. No where does it say anything about a MAN!

@psyah

Sahih International
O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah ].

You see I’m not denying the verse you give … I’m merely contextualising it with another verse …

Mr.Popat … Any verse from the Quran does not negate my belief that verse is my belief … Instead of trying to make it take a meaning I wish it to take like you are doing, I look at it and in context to other verses, something you have clearly not done, also, I look to see from the rules in Arabic whether exceptions to the statement are possible …

Rather you so desperately want it to take a meaning where you want it to oppose the ascension of Isa(AS) that you are stumbling … The verse itself has nothing to do with Isa(as), specifically.

Again, I told you that i DO have an answer to the verse you’re telling me. One thing i told u before and im telling you now again. When you bring another verse in response to a verse given to you, you’re telling the non muslims that there is contradiction in quran. You’re not questioning me but rather questioning Quran. I WILL answer to this verse if you clear me first the verse we’re talking about.

55-33 O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah ]

If you keep insisting me to answer about that verse sure i can do that. I ask you what does allah mean ‘except by authority’. Tell me whats the authority? Have we seen humans going in space recently..? yes we have.. authority is Allah’s giving the knowledge to men to calculate, to reach out to different planets, again, knowledge includes, how to get there, what to take with them to survive, how to come back..this is all included in knowledge.

Scientists and philosophers who are proud of the great advance they have made in material sciences have been warned that they cannot, however high they might rise in knowledge and science, so completely comprehend the laws of nature governing the universe as to overpower and master them. Try as they might , but they will fail in their quest. It may also point to the making of rockets by means of which Russians and Americans seek to reach heavenly bodies. They are told that at best they can reach only those planets which are visible to human eye. Beyond that there efforts will fail. Allah’s universe is unfathomable. This is again in total agreement with 7:25 verse.

You will not pass except whatever Allah wants you to know. Except whatever Allah desire humans to know. How? by authority.

You see, the way i see it is that theres no a single verse of Quran contradicting any other verse of Quran. I told u this is what quran says in 7:25.. and you showing me another verse telling me why allah is saying this then..i showed you how its not contradicting at all. Humans DO go IN SPACE, with proper knowledge, taking with them whatever is necessary to survive. In space itself, there is no life for humans.

Just like how in water, there are living creatures.. but humans are for land. It does not mean humans cannot find the hidden knowledge underneath oceans, they ofcourse do but with proper equipments with them. In ocean itself, there is no life for humans.

@psyah

Arabic if you study it that I strongly recommend has certain ways to SPECIFY a statement …these ways are either by using terms of Tawkeed, emphasis … Words like “Kullu”, “inna”, etc … Also there will be negative sentences … Such as “la ilaha ilAllah” … There is no ilah except Allah … Negation plus exception in the tahleel statemten shows a very strong identification of only one possibility.

Another way is when Arabic uses a whole new sentence to qualify a previous one, they occur one after the other … Such as in Surah Fatihah …

The path taken by those who earned your favour, not by those who went … Here although a positive statement is being made the negation was used to qualify the positive one … The structure ONLY … Can be invoked by swapping around certain words and placing Harf before them, like in IyyakaNa’budu … Which means “Only You we worship” … The normal construct for “You we worship” is “Na’buduka”.

Logically also if I make a statement “I ate the apple” … It does not mean from here that I did not eat a banana … Unless I say " I only ate the apple" …

You’re not getting it, are you?

[7:24-25] He said, ‘Go forth, some of you* being *enemies of others. And for you there is an abode on the earth and a provision for a time.’ He said, ‘Therein shall you live, and therein shall you die, and therefrom shall you be brought forth.’

if i go by how you understood it, then we shouldnt believe that we will be brought forth from here either.. since there is no emphasis. If according to you we as humans CAN live outside of earth, CAN die in space, then we can ALSO be brought forth from somewhere other than Earth. Either you take this whole verse as meaning that this alone is a place, or use ur interpretation and have doubt that theres somewhere else where we can be brought forth too. You cannot take it however you like. That’s not how it works.

THEREIN shall you live, and therein shall you die. >>again 7:24 and even before the whole topic is about humans. Adam a.s making mistake of eating from a forbidden tree.. its all about humans. I did not say it now but have said it all along. Now, if its for humans, then Isa a.s is a human being too and he MUST be present on Earth to be alive or else no matter where ever he is..heavens or where ever.. he must be dead. I’m not questioning if he is or is not in heaven.. he a.s most certainly must be, but the question is if hes there alive or dead.

This time, take your time in reading my reply and respond accordingly. jazakAllah.