despise my live-in BIL's brother

Hey all

I live in canada. my sister usually lives in PK, but was here for a year whilst BIL was posted in a dangerous area for work.

My BIL’s younger brother came ot stay with us about four months ago. he seemed educated and kind at first, but it soon became clear this was all pointless acting on his part.

my mother is in remission from cancer. we almost lost her two years ago in the ICU. my dad is old and the just found a lump in his throat (alhamdulillah this was benign). He never, ever asks them how their are, dabaas my mom’s legs even when she’s moaning in pain, or otherwise behaves as one should to his khaala and khaalu. Instead, when he does pry himself away from his laptop, and does them the favour of his company, he argues with them about PK politics etc and is an appalling battameez when doing so (arrogant, knows everything, etc).

The guy’s a slob. he’s never once dusted, cleaned or vacuumed his room, despite having said he would -a nd we gave him the bedroom with the best furniture in the house and moved my little sister out of it to a shabbier one for him. He talks loudly on his phone at all hours of day. He’s been here 5 months nearly, and not once has he even cleaned the bathroom he uses or the basement suite he lives in. He’s a so-called ‘namaazi’ (though just looking at his speedy gonzales namaz gives me a headache) and is always strutting (not walking, really strutting like a cowboy) about with his tasbeeh. His wuzu would leave a typhoon in the bathroom and he took me many times of asking for him to start wiping the water. And oddly - he doesn’t go for Jumah unless I hold his hand and take him.

He’s an ugly misogynist who would tell me sister to get him a glass of water when she came hone from 12-hour shifts at work, and lecture her on how to raise a child (oblivious that she worked because his brother couldn’t provide enough for the family). He seems to think any kind of housework is beneath him, and yet can’t do a lick of yard work outside, either. (I was out all day one time, and the besharam watched while my dad mowed the lawn.)

He eats like a Yeti, with huge heaped plates of food and no shame in finishing off what’s left in the bartan, leaving nothing for others. It’s not easy for my mum to cook - she’s bloody recovering from cancer. He sees me cleaning and helping cook every day - he doesn’t lift a finger to help.

He’s an insufferable know-it-all. I’m nearly completed aalim course back n the day, and now am a psyc/economics major. This guy interjects into any conversation on Islamic topics or anything and gives completely mixed up, idiotic claims while laughing and calling me a ‘mullah’ when I point out he’s wrong (I never finished, so I never called myself an alim,and that was a long time ago, also).

I already hate this guy’s family because of the enormous jahez my khaala , my own mother’s sister, extracted from us - you should have seen the list. they literally paid for nothing and are now going to bum off my sister’s savings from work here. I did my best to be decent with him but I’m a guy who doesn’t suffer fools and fakes - and now I just ignore him altogether.

This guy is useless, ungrateful, misogynistic, ignorant, and fat (getting fatter off all the food he shovels in). If he was decent to my parents, the other stuff could fly. But he’s the worst kind of person to have in your house in every way. He’s a bhoj, a burden. I don’t want this guy around.

Anyways, please let me know how you guys would deal with this situation. It’s not my say, and no one can get settled into a new country in 5 months. I can’t expect him to leave, I know. But he’s such a besharam, behaya, beghayrat, laa shukr, battameez fake that he’s nothing but a burden on us. Why are these Paki imports such fakes and lazy, ignorant, misogynistic losers?

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

So your mom,dad, and sister will have trouble being direct with him since they are in the vulnerable position of DIL, MIL, FIL. But it appears that you are young enough that, lets say you woke up on a sunday and gave him a list of chores you would like both of u to do together, (i.e. You mow lawn while i rake leaves etc), it wouldnt seem out of place. Even IF he is a complete jerk and reports back to his parents complaining about you, it really will have no implications cuz your parents and sister can play the "bacha hai" "westernized hai" "we had no idea" card and no tension would result. It will be either that he gets up that day and helps u out with chores or he complains to his parents and it will atleast get the msg across that YOU, being a man, do all this work and same is expected of him.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Very good points on the 'cards' we can play. But I've tried giving him chores and telling him what to do. He'll do it once, then not do anything again. I feel like I'm putting myself 'down' by asking him over and over, you know?

I've talked to him many times. I had to sit down with him and say 'listen, it doesn't look good that you sit in your room all day. Go show your face to my parents once in awhile, ask how they are, maybe help out alittle here and there. WHne ever you have time. I know the main reason you're here is to find a job so I'm not saying all the time.'

He was also going in and out of my sister's room like it was his own bloody room. I had to sit him down and tell him she's your bhabi - she's a ghair-mahram. That;s her private space. Unless it's absolutely necessary stop going in there. He just looked at me and said 'oh'. Sometimes these Pk men infuriate me. You don't know that you shouldn't treat your bhabi's room like your own????

He's older than me as well - which also makes it hard for me to tell him what to do all he time.

I'm starting to think the best thing I can do is just ignore him until he finally leaves. Which I can do in many respects, like the housework, but when it comes to the way he disrespects my parents or ingores what they tell him, I have to keep telling him over and over. He's pointless stress.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

kick him out...he has no business living with you guys. he should be on his own. he is not a baby! just be direct and tell him to move out.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

You know how our family politics are. His mother already treats my sister very poorly (her own mother's sister, it's insane how typical this is, isn't it). If I did tell him to leave, my sister would pay for it.

If I say anything remotely like that to him my parents will give me hell. They already give me enough hell for stupid things because I'm a convenient target as I'm always around them (my other siblings are useless and don't help out around the house or take care of my mother one bit).

If it was up to me, I'd tell him get a job at Target, rent a basement suite, eat canned beans. Then you'll know what life here is really like.

4 months he was here while my sister was too - not once did he buy her kids a toy or even a candy bar. Not once has he brougt home any mithai or a cake or anything. Besharmi ka intihaa.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

^ well:

takalluf = takleef

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

yeah I know, but this isn't takalluf. i have to think of my sister. also my BIL isn't a bad guy and i don't want to mess things up with him by telling his brother to piss off. it's just not my place to tell him to move out

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Cousin is wrong, but I see some faults on your end. Firstly, you admit that if you did tell him to leave, your sister's in-laws would make her pay for it. Telling him to get out is not the only way to be rude, there are other lesser forms of rudeness and how do you know he won't report those to his parents? It's unfortunate that this guy doesn't have regard for others, but if you believe yourself to have so much khayal and ehsaas for everyone, then think of you sister's position. Control your anger, control your urge to be sarcastic and to repeatedly lecture this guy. Don't put your sister's mariage at risk.

Do your parents get mad at this guy? I have aunts and cousins I'd reeeaaaalllly like tell off for hurting my family, but I'm the one who tends to be more angry at them than my parents. My parents are wise in letting things go as they know that even a civil confrontation would backfire. So if your parents are relaxed, you need to chill. Your fussing and fuming is not improving the health of your parents nor increasing the peace in the home. Pick your battles and ignore some things or you'll be fuming all the time.

Okay, so he didn't buy mithai or cake for the family. So, what? Are your parents eagerly awaiting a gift from him or is it just you keeping score? You don't even like the guy. In fact, you loathe him. What pleasure will you gain from eating the mithai given by someone you despise or what pleasure would you get from owning a gift which reminds you of his insufferable existence? Ajeeb baat hai. We want gifts from those we like and those we hate as well. I have never understood this. Expecting some courtesy from him, I understand. Expecting gifts from him as well? Pfft, dude use your emotional energy for a more worthy grievance and gifts ain't one of them.

It's actually more of an issue that your other siblings are not being helpful, not so much that your cousin-guest isn't. If both your cousin and siblings are at home doing nothing important, then your siblings are more at fault for not helping parents with the chores more than your cousin. I'm not saying that cousin should have to do nothing at all, he should definitely help out. But you're seething right now and anger can really skew perspective.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Yo. Don't read and respond only to force made-up junk in the convo.

I neither lecture him repeatedly. Never sarcastic (you made this up). I am never angry with him. He's older than me, I can't do that sulook with him. Also why I don't lecture him (you made this up too); he's okder than me. I talked to him, and even apologized for having to do so because he's older than me.

My nasty khala and her ugly sulook with my sister are always the first consideration when dealing with this guy. It's pointless stress. An ugly, lazy, fat bum in any context, no matter how nice you are - wil always be a stress.

I don't fuss and fume. It's easier to ignore him, and I gladly do. However, his bad sulook with my parents has to be addressed and can't be left alone. He can treat me like a maid (like he does) for all I care - to me he's just another worthless person. No one with ghayrat allows their parents to be treated poorly.
Parents are not relaxed about it of course. They are simply too old and too ill to go to the trouble of telling this badtameez what's what.

Like I said, I do not make this an issue with my parents. It would only stress them because they already know he's bekaar. You're ignoring what I said I actually do. I do not cause trouble at home over this guy.

You're a selective reader, which is an ugly thing to be because you're only after boosting your own ego. End of. He's a fat, lazy, be-hiss person who never bought a single toy for his nephews or took them out even once - not even t the park 20 feet away form home. His idea of putting the infant one to sleep was to throw him on one shoulder, while talking endlessly on Viber on the other hand.

Staying at someone's home home and never once showing any consideration to the parents in any form - whether it is by bringing something home, or by asking how they are - is severe indencency.
It's beghayrti to the nth degree. End of. It doesn't matter what shape it takes - I'm talking consideration, not gifts. You don;t stay somewhere without lifting a finger; asking after the parents; or even at least buying a damn cake or a toy for your own brother's kids.

Yup, siblings have inherent responsibility and much more so to help out.
Nope, doesn't change the fact that this mota besharam bum decided he can do the same and stay in our home as though he's staying in a hotel.
Nope, never said I was seething.
Who has the energy to seethe when you have a mother who is in remission from cancer, and much bigger worries? You're immature as anything and projecting on me. I said he was a burden and no one, when a family has enough stresses, wants another useless burden. He's a useless burden. I don't like him and I hate his family over the massive jahez. Yup. Am I seething? Nope. never said I was. Don't invent things, you.

TL;DR: you don;t know how to read, or respond, logically. You respond only to force your own ideas on the conversation. You seem to love dakhal and making up pointless crap.

You have an aunt who's getting better after hell with cancer and stay in her home and never, at the least, ask after her. Anyone'd call you a besharam, behayaa, ugly person. End of.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Wow, you certainly have a chip on your shoulder. :/

Let me clarify what I meant in my earlier post. Having reread my post, I see that I used some poor choice of words. In post # 3 you said that you've talked to him many times and you've told him what do, what not to do. So, you've spoken to him repeatedly. Your words may come across as a lecture to him, sometimes repetition can offend a person. In a general way, I had meant that anything lesser than bluntness, be it repeated talks or even sarcasm can be taken as offense. And since your sister is married into the family, you have to be extra careful as you already know. I only gave a precautionary reminder, I wasn't accusing you of deliberate rudeness toward him. I will admit I found a few of your comments harsh and well, unnecessary and I've explained why below.

I do indeed have a big ego, it's already well-fed so I don't think I was using your predicament to boost it any further, at least I hope not. :p Like you, I also have some difficult relatives who are actually ruder than your cousin. They can't even manage to show my family basic respect, so I don't bother with expectations of mithai or money or gifts. Any mithai he brings will bring only a few moments of happiness and then you'll be mad again when you see him being inconsiderate in other ways. So, let this mithai non-issue go.

His namaz. Okay. His namaz and how fast he prays it and with what intention he prays it, and whether or not he attends jummah prayers is between him and Allah. It's not your concern, just as your ibadat is not his concern. His fatness or weight again is his concern more than yours. Yes, it would be nice if he bought his nieces and nephews a toy, but if the kids are Alhumdolillah happy and not lacking anything, let it go. Apart from toys, if he's a nice uncle to them and hasn't harmed the kids in any way, let it go. Some guys don't know how to put a baby to sleep; they're not good at such things. Don't hold this against him, let it go.

Think of a storage unit that is crammed with things. Some of those things are useful and some aren't. That said some of the things you're angry about are truly valid concerns and some are not. This is what I meant when I said that anger skews perspective, for all of us, even me. For your own sanity, stop getting angry over things about this guy that are not your concern and that are pointless. I am not being a selective reader, it is just that you have misjudged my intentions. I know that you never said you seethe, but it's clear you're seething or angry right now. I understand that your main frustration with your cousin is his laziness and disregard of basic etiquette. I understand that things like the mithai and his weight and his ibadat are minor things that you vented because you're angry and for you they only reinforce his negative, loathsome image. But if you let these nom-issues go, I think it'll take some of the edge off your stress.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Sadly, that's how a lot of desis are. They take advantage of the situation. Don't confront him outright but make him help out, yes, you will have to say it repeatedly but at least it will be something. Act friendly with him too so it doesn't seem that you are acting hostile towards him. Also, try and get those siblings of yours to help out too, the ugh might think that if the rest of the house isn't helping, why should he?

P.S. I feel for your situation, I really do, I have dealt with this situation too so I know how it feels.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

You have a lot of resentness build towards your cousin and I'm assuming it has a lot to do with how his family treats your sister and not just the fact that he is a lazy bum.

Now what you can do is very little because like you're younger than him and if you do something extraordinary - it might backfire to your sister. I would say you need to either ignore him completely, that also includes not doing his chores or you should sit down with your parents and get them on board with whatever changes you need.

Where is your sister in all this? as technically he's her "family" - she is the one who should be handling him and why do you need to sit down with him and tell him not to go into your sister's room all the time? She should be the one putting her foot down and doing something about it.

Re: despise my live-in BIL’s brother

Firstly, you cant be getting angry with him over everything, you will go crazy. Learn to pick and choose the battles you wanna fight with him.

Secondly, if I were in your position I would find it very hard to get him to participate in the home chores. but the point here is that he is not a guest anymore. He has been there for months and is expected to remain for an unknown period of time. So I guess the best option would be for your sister to have a little chat with her husband and without putting any complaints about this guys behaviour, she should ask the husband to get his brother to participate in the chores as much as he can.

See if this helps the situation somewhat if not completely. Also I think, no matter what you think of him, you shouldnt be calling him names , it just doesnt sound right :no:

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Why isn't he working? He can't find any kind of work? I don't think his behavior is going to change, at least not anytime soon. However he would not be that much of an eye sore if he were employed. He'd spend some time outside the house, have money to eat out and perhaps contribute to the household expenses.

Try helping him find a job, anything that pays. The guy has to start somewhere. His lazy bum staying home won't help anyone.

Re: despise my live-in BIL’s brother

respectfully I have to disagree with the suggestion that this man’s behaviour should be brought before his brother by his bhabhi…I really don’t see anything good coming of that…not for the man himself and definitely not for the relationship between husband and wife.

my suggestion would be that the conversation remain between the OP and the cousin with the points being made very bluntly and without emotion…
for example:

“We need to talk. You need to understand that you are here not because you are a guest but a member of this family. If you were a guest, you would have been asked to find other arrangements by now but since you are family and we would not think of asking you to leave until such time as you are, at a minimum, able to support yourself then we also need you to behave like family. How is that you ask? Well…for one you need to be a contributing member…and since you cannot do that in a financial way then you need to do it through your actions. That means you can take on certain chores…”

at the end of the day what some have said in this thread is valid…you have no right to criticize his namaz or whether or not he goes for juma…that is between him and his Creator…just as your ibadat is between you and yours’.

I can understand the anger and the frustration that you have towards him but it’s also true that if your own siblings are not contributing towards the care of your parents then to expect that same from the cousin is unreasonable and such expectations will do nothing but upset you further.

you are to be commended for the compassion that you have for your parents, may Allah swt reward you for that. seek solace in the fact that this man, who is older but not wiser than you, will likely suffer more during his life and afterwards for not having the same kindness in his heart for his elders. perhaps Allah will place mercy in your heart for him.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

I agree with majority of what Muzna said , particularly about Namaz .

Actually Muzna, the reason why i feel his brother should intervene , because sometimes with in-laws if you deal with it direct they tend to take offense faster. But if the husband is any good and cares the least about the wife's family, if he says something to his brother, chances are he might just listen and also chances of taking offense get reduced ..

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

^ Ya I agree, maybe speaking to your BIL (if you think he will understand) might be a good idea.
But if you are worried about how your sister will be treated later on when she returns to PAK then you're kind of limited in what you can say/do.

If it's just small things like him staying in his room all day, etc then I would just ignore him and his behaviour. Because he isn't going to be living with you forever and it's a small inconvenience right now but since you don't want to start trouble for your sister, there isn't much you can honestly do.

Also things like talking to your parents, dabaa'ing your mom's legs and all, that all comes from actually caring about the person and can't be actions that you force him to do.. so really if he cares enough to speak to your parents and find out how they are doing, etc. that's good on him , but if he doesn't care, then there really is no point in saying anything.

Another trick might also be to just completely ignore him, sometimes people do things on purpose to get a reaction out of us... just to start something because they are bored. So keep mum and see if he changes his ways. You only really have 2 options here if you can't ask him to move out; either speak to your BIL about his behaviour or get your sister to do it if they have a good relationship OR ignore him until it's time for him to get back on that plane...

Re: despise my live-in BIL’s brother

I hear you. And I wish that it was as simple as that.
Unfortunately I have seen many more cases where once close-knit cousins get torn apart when there is a marital relationship established.
I think the OP hinted at the fact that the khala took advantage of them when it came to jahez etc so I took it to mean that the “behn/behn” relationship has been reduced to “samdhan/samdahn” :cb:

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

I don't know Muz, I feel that elder brother can set things straight. I know if my dewar was like this I would definitely talk to my husband and he WOULD set him straight.

Re: despise my live-in BIL's brother

Khotey ki aulaad...I don't know where you are from but how dare you call us Paki imports fakes or lazy? Who are you? and what are you? Since we are imports what are you? an export? or perhaps you are one of those ex Pakistanis who come on Pakistani sites to try to cling onto your lost Pakistaniyat. how can you say noone can settle into a new country in 5 months? I settled in UAE in 3 months and when i Migrated to Pakistan I settled in 2 months. Before that, i moved to europe and got a job within 30 days and had my apartment in 60. Secondly how can someone 'extract' jahez from someone else is beyond me. Nobody can extract anything unless you let yourself be extracted munna. You decided to let him in....so either bear him or tell him to make his arrangement....