arvind looking at the attempts of these right wingers on bothy sides of the border, all i have to say is that had some of our great urdu poets and writers been around now, ranging from mir, and ghalib to prem chand and pitris, they would be puttign hits out on these guys.
zakii
good for you and good work by your parents. But again the people that you deal with are in an an english speaking country where if the family does not make sure that teh language and culture is taught, kids will nto learn.
My confusion is about the characters who have lived their entire lives in pakistan, and 6 years ago when the family moved from friggin dhoraji colony to clifton, baccha party "cant" speak urdu, or have to speak in an indian movie villain "robert' type accent.
whats up with that I say..
Uptill about 2-3 years ago people thought my urdu sounded like pathan-urdu. I used to get that in college in Pakistan a lot. People would even ask if I was pathan. Somehow I never realised I had an accent. My dad put all us siblings in schools where urdu was compulsory and we had no way out but to study it. So we learned how to read and write but speaking part stayed the same. Till a couple of years ago no one had ever really ridiculed my urdu. Ofcourse I took the initiative to fix it when a karachite friend started making fun and would pick certain words and repeat them exactly how I said it. That made me realise how silly it must sound. So I took it upon myself to speak clearly and observe pronunciations in dramas and tv etc. Now I am almost flawless and usually correct others when they mispronounce words! 
I am afraid FF, if you ever meet someone from Hyderabad dakkhan, you will laugh at their urdu until patloon gili ho jayegi! Wahanke log bahothi ajeeb urdu bolte hain. Nizam-ul-mulk was a pakka muslman but spoke a very different urdu than what you think as good urdu, lets say Lucknawi urdu. I must admit it was the corrosive influence of my own mother-tongue (Marathi) that changed Hyderabadi urdu, now called dakhani to have such grammar as 'Apun to pahilech bola tha".
Let’s say that you are a Punjabi, your kids are born in the US. Would you teach your kids Punjabi or Urdu? Why should there be any need for them to learn Urdu?
Arvind, my buddy is from Nakhlow, and his Urdu rocks.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Let’s say that you are a Punjabi, your kids are born in the US. Would you teach your kids Punjabi or Urdu? Why should there be any need for them to learn Urdu?
Arvind, my buddy is from Nakhlow, and his Urdu rocks.
[/QUOTE]
madhanee urdu was used as an example, substitute urdu with mother tongue and the question remains the same. again this post is less about desis who have moved abroad or are born and raised abroad but more about those who are in Pakistan.
what would u say about some kid who moved from some avg area to some posh area of Lahore at age 14 and now at 18 cant speak punjabi, or speaks punjabi as if he grew up in NYC or b'ham.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Let’s say that you are a Punjabi, your kids are born in the US. Would you teach your kids Punjabi or Urdu? Why should there be any need for them to learn Urdu?
Arvind, my buddy is from Nakhlow, and his Urdu rocks.
[/QUOTE]
Yeh kahan hain bhai Nakhlow, did you mean Lakhnow? If it is Lakhnow, then no argument, their urdu is some of the best.
hyderabadi style..u mean stuff like
"niko baaba, kaisi bataan kartaaan"
"ayo maaan,..ay pottaaaay.."
that type of stuff? hehe... their manner of speech is rather peculiar.
Arvind jani, talk to any Nakhloa, and he/she will call it Nakhlow. Iman ki baat kar raha hooN Yaar.
Fradum, it’s OK to speak however the hell one can. It’s superficial to look above the surface. I know what your thread is about, and you talk about Punjabi, you will be surprised to know that the accent changes every two city blocks. There’s no such thing as One Punjabi. We are very creative people, and Punjabi (various varieties) has been around for longer than all the Semitic and Indo-Aryan languages. Koi pata laga e?
My cousin was a newsreader on PTV and Radio Pak, and the only reason he was given the job was because his Punjabi was Oxford Punjabi, to be followed by all. I am personally proficient in a few varieties, a Sikhni mistook me for someone from Patyala, ask Channmahi.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
hyderabadi style..u mean stuff like
"niko baaba, kaisi bataan kartaaan"
"ayo maaan,..ay pottaaaay.."
that type of stuff? hehe... their manner of speech is rather peculiar.
[/QUOTE]
You got it Pir. It is a mixture of urdu, marathi and telgu.
Re: Desis, urdu..and english, and the in between stuff
hahha!! 
GREAT POST GREAT THREAD! :k:
Fraudia, good thing it has come up again, i wasnt a guppy when it was first posted, i totally agree with your views and concerns. great post!
Pir Sahib,
Phak phak ada does not mean a train staion. Yahan bacche hain isi liye main nahi bataunga ke voh kya cheez hain.
Arvind
is it the same as bait ul khala? :D
maybe I heard it wrong..but someone was once referring to all these new indian words for stuff. like telephone, train station etc
Haaris
nawazish, I guess its an evergreen topic, it was started back like 5 years ago almost
great thread indeed !
we r in germany .......n we have kids who r 5 n 3 ....i do teach them urdu n outside they speak german....so no english at least now
but the sad thing is when we visit pak ....ppl use soooo much english in their evryday chit chat that my kids have a hard time there usually
n i need to explain them every other sentence in 'pure urdu'
^^
lol....that's so true! I know a family who just came to US a month ago and I noticed them speaking more english than most of my family speaks...I mean, someone in their family even told me 'aap bohat urdu words use karti hain' :o...What am I supposed to use french words when speaking in urdu? :--/
It reminds me when I returned to Pakistan after spending a few years in Canada. People would speak to us (my sister and I) in English and we would reply back in Urdu. We got the strangest looks.
Even here in Canada, we know of so many immigrants who have been here for quite a while, but they converse in Urdu as if they have never spoken the language before. In fact, when we speak to them in Urdu, they give us this weird look as if we're some sort of 'jaahils' who are incapble of speaking in English.
I've been raised speaking Urdu at home all my life. I've seen many others who stress speaking in English at home. It hasn't done'em much good.
Like someone mentioned, we speak in English outside home anyway, so there are no risks of not being able to grasp the language or doing a horrible job at it.
I guess it has to do with inferiority complex.
Re: Desis, urdu..and english, and the in between stuff
so has anything changed for the better? good post bro
Re: Desis, urdu..and english, and the in between stuff
[quote]
Scenario#2: You grew up in the middle east...hmmmmm question is, why is your urdu bad and hopping along with a "western" accent. If we take into account the same criteria as discussed in the previous example..should you not be speaking urdu with an arabic accent and mixing arabic words like "Ya Habeebi, Ateeni aik panni ka glass, shukran". Its my impression that desis growing up in middleeast feel like expatriates of teh second degree compared to those in europe and North america ( and australia perhaps) ..thus trying to be all western...but folks.. you are spotted a mile away J Those Hara Jeans have got to go, and the whole nike and reebok heyday is gone, so quit dressing like an extra from "footloose" and chill. On a positive side though, most of these folks are in another country and with limited opportunities to use urdu on an everyday basis since they are in international schools most of the times. Again parents fault and all...but its slightly ummmm dodgy shall we say.
[/quote]
Well in Saudi Arabia, there is very little interaction between locals' and expats' kids, most never ever learn Arabic, except for a few words. And I never saw anyone emphasizing to their kids that they should learn Arabic. Maybe some do, but I have never seen it. It's just not needed. It is very common to not know a lick about Arabic customs, even though they might have spent 20 years there. If this is the case in SA, I imagine in Dubai or Abu Dhabi a person living in a gated community of expats can probably go without ever being exposed to Arabic.
Oh and the well off Pakistanis send their kids to the various American and British schools (lots of $$$$), whose entire purpose is to surround students with that environment. So naturally, speaking with that fake "Western" accent is necessary to show a return on the money to the parents hehehe.
But, like you, I also find that funny. Can't speak English with any proper accent, and cannot speak Urdu at all. What did they actually learn?
Going off on a tangent, this is one of the reasons whenever I hear people say "I should take a job in mideast, I want my kids to have an Islamic environment", I try to tell them your kids will hardly ever get exposed to that Islamic environment. If anything they will get even more confused.
Re: Desis, urdu..and english, and the in between stuff
gaRhay murday ukhaar rahy ho bhaio ... thread has been revived about then times over the years
Re: Desis, urdu..and english, and the in between stuff
mr fraudia, lol, nice...thank's for sharing... okay erm.. yeah i agree with you totally on why do pakistanis living in pakistan have a western accent to their urdu....
like my chachu's daughters, they act as if they were theones who grew up in the states, acting funny , it makes me laugh each time i hear them say anything in english... it's like they try to show off... n i mean show of... it's just silly... but again ... what about those people who have a hard time learning urdu ....(the reading n writting part).....like i grew up in the states.... urdu is hard for me to write in or read, althou i can read or ahem try to read urdu due to the Quran or arabic, but still its hard....it's funny being back here in pakistan and seeing these children go to school and have classes in urdu , but still they end up saying they are weak in urdu when infact they just dont want to learn it... due to tv and music and so on that they are so into.... that they forgot that who or where they are..... mostly it's not their fault either... if you look at it... it's like dad is out of the coutry working...mom is to busy with her ownself to notice that the children are loosing their culture value that their elders had set for them while they were growing up...it's funny that the people living aboard have more culture value besto upon their children than the people living in pakistan... it's like they incourge (my bad for my spellings) them to speak in english....