Desis, urdu..and english, and the in between stuff

Adaab! Agar main apni do koRee ki raaye pesh kar sakta hoon to main sirf itna kahoonga ke main is nuqta-e-nazar se ittefaaq karta hoon jo is mas'alay ko aik inferiority complex ka nateeja samajhta hai; jo log apne tehzeeb o tammadan ko ingrez/maghribi aur hasoosan amriki tehzeeb ke muqaablay mein heech aur kamtar samajhein gay to zaahir hai ke aisay log apni zabaan ko bhi bura samajhein ge aur isse bolne se parheiz kareingay...


Yeh bhi baat sahih hai ke khaandaan aur parwarish ka bhi bahut asar hota hai; jin logon ke waalidayn apni tehzeeb ko jaan-na aik aham baat samajhte hain aur koshisah karke apne bachchon ko urdu sikhaate hain to phir unke bacchay seekh lete hain jahaan bhi maqeem hoN..


Mere khyaal mein yeh humaare andar aik gehree marz ki zaahiri alaamat hai-aur yeh marz hai maghreb-parasti. Choonke aaj ke zamaane mein maghribi tehzeeb arooj par hai humaare log is se itne mutaasir ho chuke hain ke khud apni tehzeeb ko bhula rehe hain...


Main ne PTV ke aik show mein Sajjad Ali (pop singer) ko dekha tha uar us ne sar pe baseball cap pehnee huwi thi aur woh bhi backwards aur aisay pesh aa raha tha jaisay woh amrikan hai!! Aur afsos ki baat ke log isse mutaasir ho kar--gaanon ki wajjah se---iski naql kareingay...


Mere khyaal mein government level changes are required to revive Urdu. Dekho humare leader aur rehnumaa bhi ingrezi mein bolte hain aur humaari parliament aur adaalaton mein bhi aksar ingrezi chalti hai (aur military mein bhi)...jab tak sab sarkari daftaron mein ingrezi ke bajaaye urdu nahin boli jaati yeh mas'ala sangeen hota chala jaayega....


haaN agar koi tabqa hai jo aaj kal bhi khaalis urdu bolta hai to woh hain humaare ulama; aap kabhi kissi jalsay mein shirkat karein--koi bhi firqa ho--to aap behtreen Urdu sunein gay...

Aur aisay log jab TV pe bhi aate hain to umdah urdu bolte hain..haalanke lots can also speak english...


To finish I think it is a manifestation of a deeper, national level problem and needs to be remedied at that level....

URDU is such a lovely language as a visit to the Poetry forum will show!!


Urdu seekhiye aur uspe fakhr kejiye!


Ok, now the worst scenario.
what about people who ;
-can't speak Urdu
-can't write Urdu
-only speak a Punjabi dialect (pathwari)
-speak and write bad English

(Imagine all the Pak'is not living in the us or the UK.)

[This message has been edited by pathwari (edited October 28, 1999).]

There are so many in Pakistan who can only speak their mother tongue, like you mentioned, but I think you should again read the post by Balck Zero, which in my opinion is also applicable in this case.

its back..again

Pathwari you need lessons in Gurmukhi from me:) bring 101 daalar and a pagRi(unaabhi rung di) as soon as possible.

ChannMahi,
Yara pagRi to he (ho gaas potoharo paindoo wa de, jis ke assaN paG kehndeN haan) par dollar itne ne baNde, keh karaN? TussaN de passe koi safaai da kamcham koi nahi? AssaN ve amrika koi mauj kare je.

Te sangia, Gurmukhi ko choor urdu ve ne aandee.

(ps Fraudie Yaar, i also met some1 from here : Najim. We had a great time in Amsterdam)

[This message has been edited by pathwari (edited August 03, 2000).]

Guys thanks for the opinions..let me point out what my intentions were,

1- Why do native speakers, who live in the country speak their mother tongue in a way that is heavily tainted with a western accent.

It makes no sense, I understand that many people dont have urdu as their primary language but punjabi, sindhi etc…

I am also sayng the people who grew up in UK and USa etc have valid reasons to have deficiency in their parents language or to have an accent.

The groups that I wonder about are desi back home who have accents in their native tongue..how did it get there, why did it happen, and the excuse Oh I got o an english medium school just does not cut it

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yeah man,

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urdu is the one of sweetest languages, mostly respecting and the only way for expressions of dreamers and nakaam ashiks yaar.

i like urdu, coz i cant speak english, but i can speak another language, which is sweet, too, yaar.

urdu ki kya baat hai janab. urdu kee ta`reef karne ke liye to meri urdu hee khatam ho gayee.


beyond the horizont°°°my heart gone

I thought it was:-

You can take a man out of the Pind but can’t take the Pind out of a man…

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MS

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~~ Gizzy Ki Jaano.. ~~

Mr. Fraudia, you're making me feel really bad here but then again, I ask myself why because I am at absolutely no fault whatsoever!!

Wannabees suck, and I totally agree that Urdu is a beautiful language which we should be proud of!

My parents have never encouraged me to speak in Urdu, I've been abroad most of my life. But I have always wanted to be able to read and write it. So I watch the dramas, speak to my mum's friends in broken Urdu, I try my best but at the end of the day I say f*** the effort and revert to English...sometimes these things cant be helped even if you'd like them to be otherwise!!

Cat woman, I empathize with you.
My question is not with people who grew up abroad.

I question people who live in pakistan, specifically karachi…and “act” as if they cant speak urdu

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Its very tough living abroad to use your language. My mother has a law…No one speaks in English with her..ever..its urdu, even if we speak in english she will reply in urdu

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My dad uses both with us but also tries to speak more urdu.

Again, issue is not with people who grew up abroad…but with people in Pakistan.

Okie, Mr. Frauds, message understood!

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Farudia Saheb,

Excellent Post!!!!!


shukriya

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will you share your opinion on this topic?

Well, thats quite an interesting topic. Which reminds me of an old, ghissa pitta joke…

A paindoo family after living 3 years in UK comes back to their gaon to meet their relatives… The mother says to her son, “Son, window close kar de, thandian thandian breezaN aandian ne”. Khair, I don’t know to what extent is this true. But I have seen my cousin who had this kind of inqilab in his angrezi… he spent 5 years in UK on political assylum, and returned back home just couple of years ago.. now he speaks somewhat the above mentioned kind of lingo.

I got educated in Pakistan and i have come across many of those wannabe angrez people, who proudly say, “Uff!! I am so terrible at Urdu, pata nahien pass kaisay ho gaie”, “I have got Urdu tution, I can’t even read anything in Urdu”. And I was always like, “c’mon gimme a break.. you people are in 10th grade (or above). How come you don’t know how to read urdu, and how did you pass your previous exams?”
And the situation became even funnier when the Urdu teacher asked those wannabies to read the lesson infron of all the class. We could see that they know what they are reading but still they delibrately made their accent as such so it seemed that it was a hard job to be given to those poor souls.

Anyway, I will quote another example here of my own cousins, who are born and bred in London. They came to pakistan a few years ago, and came to meet us. Their mother did a good job at teaching them Urdu. They tried their best not to mix any english word in Urdu, and I liked that and appreciated that too. But I was rather embaressed to see some people’s attitude. Trying to interact with them in English, even when they were responding in urdu.

And yet another experience with some parents who want their children to speak english “far far”!! When we asked some parents, why are your children studying in Indian schools, not in a Pakistani? The response you are most likely to get is “Kionkeh Indian schools main English achi hoti hai”… what do you mean by english achi hoti hai??? Just because in the Pakistani schools children talk to eachother in Urdu in break doesn’t mean that their english is not good. I have been educated in Pakistan and I speak urdu all the time.. does this mean my english is bad? And what if I am not good at speaking english? To kia hooa? No one will kill me for that!

And I will never understand why people talk in english when they know the other person can understand their home language… why speak this farangi language? Can’t we deliver our message in our sweet language Urdu? Its right that Urdu has be distorted by 50% mixing of english words, but still its Urdu… Our Urdu.. its our identity, why should we feel ashamed to talk in Urdu?

Just the other day I was reading a lesson in Udru text book of 10th class, the title of which was “qoami Zuban” by Molvi Abdul-huq… and it said…

“Hamaray aslaaf (ancestors) ne kaisi kaisi mehnat aur mushaqat se isay pala posa hai aur apnay khoon se saincha hai. Yeh aik muqadas meeras hai jo naslan baad nasal hum tak pohnchi hai. Hum na-khalf (nalaiq) ho gay agar hum ne isay qaim na rakhain aur is ki tarraqi-o-farogh main poori koshish na ki.”

“zuban aik bari qouat hai aur qomiat aur tehzeeb ki jaan hai yehi wajah hai keh mukhalif sab se pehlay is per haath dalta hai aur usay mitanay ya kamzor karnay ki koshish karta hai. Zuban walay agar is raaz se waqif hon to unhain is kay bachanay ke lieye har qism ki qurbani karni parti hai.”

“jis qadar koi qoam ziada taraqi-yafta ho isi qadar is ki zuban wasee (wide) aur us main nazuk khialat aur ilmi matalib ada karnay ki salahiyat hoti hai aur jis qadar kisi qoam ki zuban mehdood ho isi qadar tehzeeb o shaistagi balkeh insaniat main is a darja kam hota hai.”

And the most important one…

“Qomiat kay lieye yak-rangi ki, yak-rangi ke lieye ham-khiali ki, aur hum-khiali ke lieye hum-lasani (aik zuban) ki zaroorat hai. Jahan zuban aik nahien wahan khial ka rang aik nahien, jahan khial aik nahien wahan dil bhi aik nahien. Yeh dilon ko jorti aur beganon ko yagana bana deti hai.”

Well this is all I have to say right now…
Later.

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The light you see at the end of the tunnel is always a train.

[This message has been edited by Clementine (edited August 15, 2000).]

Clementine

great thoughts, I think you hit the bulls eye in the end as language being an integral part of a culture and identity, something that is not recognized by many.

To me its not just an urdu issue, even though that is what the title suggests, but more of the mother tongue of the person whether it is punjabi, balochi, sindhi, pashto, saraiki etc etc.

Yes, besides Urdu, all the other languages existing in pakistan are of equal importance. We should not let them die.

What I believe is, theek hai, teach your children English. Send them to English Medium Schools etc.. encourage them to talk in English, but only when it is needed.

Learn English but not at the cost of our own language.

And in the end, I would like to repeat after you, Mr. Fraudia.
Urdu likheiye, Urdu bolieye aur Urdu Parheiye

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The light you see at the end of the tunnel is always a train.

HeHeHeHeHe

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Fraudia Ji…
I know one more word like this.. an indian friend of mine told me long time ago…

Daey Patta Patt, Lay Patta Patt = Table Tennis

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There were a few more.. can’t remember them now.. Myabe later on..

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GIZZY

Dopey, here ya go

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Urdu hai jiska naam , hum jaante hain Daag
Saare jehaan main dhoom humari zubaan ki hai

                          Daag Dehlvi