I think this thread is getting off topic and becoming a blatant blame game. A scammer got the best of a customer and you can't really blame anyone but the scammer. This thread really should be about thinking twice or being wary of scams when ordering online without meeting the designers in person first.
Please don't malign the designer's name. It's not really his fault, and I am not saying it is yours either. Just be very careful in money matters, and never take even the slightest red flag with grain of salt. Reputed designers don't usually do WU type payments but in fact a formal money transfer or bank cheque with more security screening for them and the customer. Remember they get so many online orders, even they are wary of being scammed - so not really much we can do about it here.
Also just to let people know his avg wedding jora these days cost around USD 8K-10K.
You know honestly I'm much more disappointed that he has such a small heart!
He must be making millions of rupees if his ID was compromised (which is His responsibility completely!) He could have thanked her, apologize for the inconvenience and offer her a discount of the amount she has lost due to the fraud instead he brushed the whole thing off and said 'so who is going to give me my advance in Karachi'
I mean seriously? You know it wouldn't have made him poor! Instead been an example of a great customer service which you SHOULD expect if you are paying $6000 for a dress!
Come on peoole its Dr. Haroon and not some small vendor, he handled it so badly that it breaks my heart!
^ This!
I could understand if she had emailed someone at the wrong email account, I've heard of people setting up dummy accounts with similar sounding addresses - but she emailed HIS correct account after speaking with him and having prior communication with him at the same address. For him to not take any accountability or regret that this happened, speaks poorly of him.
My first instinct wouldn't even want to give him the benefit of the doubt of a hacker and just assume that HE took her money and won't answer for it. The burden is on him to prove he a) didn't give the instruction and b) didn't receive the funds. He created the risk by allowing his account to be hacked and misused. He should have had proper controls in place before, as well as being clear about correct way to make payment.
On principle, I wouldn't order and would discourage others from ordering from him.
And maybe it's my North American corporate sensibility that's speaking, but I know that corporations that are victims of a cyberattack or a scammer would make the end client whole.
He has doubled the prices of his bridals in the last year or so, I am sure he could've accommodated an arrangement.
It's funny how fasaadi mentioned she has been dealing with him over email and text, but still think I am the one at fault for trusting information that came from his email account. This can happen to anyone, and I am sure it has. Girls probably don't say anything because they are embarrassed that this happened to them. Heck, I feel foolish, but I wanted to make sure I put this out there. It's easier to spot a scam when you are dealing with the wrong person, but I wasn't just dealing with the wrong person here.
I've already notified WU, but I read up on how they work. They won't do much about it since the money has been picked up.
I think this thread is getting off topic and becoming a blatant blame game. A scammer got the best of a customer and you can't really blame anyone but the scammer. This thread really should be about thinking twice or being wary of scams when ordering online without meeting the designers in person first.
Please don't malign the designer's name. It's not really his fault, and I am not saying it is yours either. Just be very careful in money matters, and never take even the slightest red flag with grain of salt. Reputed designers don't usually do WU type payments but in fact a formal money transfer or bank cheque with more security screening for them and the customer. Remember they get so many online orders, even they are wary of being scammed - so not really much we can do about it here.
Also just to let people know his avg wedding jora these days cost around USD 8K-10K.
Maligning his name would be calling him names and saying he is a bad designer/ person. No one is doing that here and anything that has been said has been backed with more than sufficient proof. All that has been done here so far is stating the experience and warning others. Like you said, designers are careful about sending their details to customers, so it is possible that they can use WU as it requires very little amount of their personal details being disclosed. He did ask for 8000 USD for the dress after the payment.
Like Sehrysh mentioned, part of me wants to lay all the responsibility on Dr. Haroon, but I am not doing that. I am more disappointed in the way he handled this.
I understand this bursts the bubble of the secret club of being a "[Insert name of the designer here] bride", but this happened!! Putting a review about it can potentially save future clients.
No one is blaming him for the scam.. I don't think OP is doing that. All she is saying is that she is disappointed in the way gee handled this situation. If something life this would happen to well recognized western company or something they would at least apologize... And most likely than not honor the customer. Dr. Haroon's rude attitude in dealing with this is what OP is furious about and rightly so.
I honestly can't believe some of the replies I'm reading?!?!!
Are you so blinded by his designer label tag that understanding facts is becoming hard?
If my email address was hacked (and I'm not even a business owner) and someone got scammed because of me I would first apologize and see what I could do in my power to make it up to that person.
Its called courtesy, humanity, ethics, bare minimum basics. You know the stuff that we learn from our parents & in school. Its exactly that!
The way this girl has dealt with the situation is way mature then I could have ever managed. If my 3000$ was taken cuz some stupid man doesn't realize his business email id was hacked maybe he needs proper employees to keep a track of his business.
His business is not just making clothes, owning a business also means providing service which he seriously needs to learn!
Honestly l'm fuming, I dont know how she is so calm! This story goes on my Facebook wall so that the word spreads..
I wasn't blaming you for trusting the email...and yes I've dealt with him on email, Facebook and Whatsapp but I always verify through another medium, like if he emails me something, I'll also ask him questions about the same on Whatsapp. I'm only saying what some others have said, that it's not entirely your fault, but it's not entirely his either. I'm sorry I didn't get some of the points earlier (like about how the money was sent to someone w the same name) that you later clarified in your response.
Did you try to ask him for a discount before starting this thread? I know anyone who has lost $3000 wouldn't want to pay an additional $6000, but maybe you could've given him $3000 and he could've given you a $3000 jora with enough kaam for like a $4500 or $5000 jora, that way you're both incurring some sort of loss, since the responsibility of his email account was on him and the responsibility to be cautious was on you. I just wonder if he would've been more cooperative if you hadn't sent him a link with this thread. It seems like that's when things really started going downhill and it would've been smarter to exhaust every possible option with him before airing any grievances.
I wasn't blaming you for trusting the email...and yes I've dealt with him on email, Facebook and Whatsapp but I always verify through another medium, like if he emails me something, I'll also ask him questions about the same on Whatsapp. I'm only saying what some others have said, that it's not entirely your fault, but it's not entirely his either. I'm sorry I didn't get some of the points earlier (like about how the money was sent to someone w the same name) that you later clarified in your response.
Did you try to ask him for a discount before starting this thread? I know anyone who has lost $3000 wouldn't want to pay an additional $6000, but maybe you could've given him $3000 and he could've given you a $3000 jora with enough kaam for like a $4500 or $5000 jora, that way you're both incurring some sort of loss, since the responsibility of his email account was on him and the responsibility to be cautious was on you. I just wonder if he would've been more cooperative if you hadn't sent him a link with this thread. It seems like that's when things really started going downhill and it would've been smarter to exhaust every possible option with him before airing any grievances.
That's what a friend suggested that maybe he will work with you with 3000 USD. I actually checked with him about that before posting here, and he told me he is not responsible. It was clear he didn't care about the discount. I am not in Pakistan to just drop by, and like I mentioned in my original post, I don't have too much time to hand walk the dress either. Checking and double checking on Whatsapp, Facebook, phone makes sense if you are dealing with a small vendor who you need to micromanage. I was not planning on micromanaging him. Heck, that was the whole point of going to a designer.
I'm taking over this thread, I know! but I just can't believe the man's guts.
Did you read the part when after she informed him on WhatsApp about the scam and he shamelessly asked her for the 50% advance of 300,000?
Shouldn't he have said:
Since it was my account that was jeopardized I would like to work with you and try doing ur jora in the minimum cost possible. It may not be in the same range you initially had in mind due to this unfortunate setback but i assure you itll be worth it & for just this once ill not charge any profit of my own on this one. I apologize for the inconvenience caused.
Instead he writes:
Now how do we proceed? Is there some family in Pakistan that can give me 50% advance which is 300,000
Is that the way any businessman should deal with a customer? Regardless of any circumstance?
I wasn't blaming you for trusting the email...and yes I've dealt with him on email, Facebook and Whatsapp but I always verify through another medium, like if he emails me something, I'll also ask him questions about the same on Whatsapp. I'm only saying what some others have said, that it's not entirely your fault, but it's not entirely his either. I'm sorry I didn't get some of the points earlier (like about how the money was sent to someone w the same name) that you later clarified in your response.
Did you try to ask him for a discount before starting this thread? I know anyone who has lost $3000 wouldn't want to pay an additional $6000, but maybe you could've given him $3000 and he could've given you a $3000 jora with enough kaam for like a $4500 or $5000 jora, that way you're both incurring some sort of loss, since the responsibility of his email account was on him and the responsibility to be cautious was on you. I just wonder if he would've been more cooperative if you hadn't sent him a link with this thread. It seems like that's when things really started going downhill and it would've been smarter to exhaust every possible option with him before airing any grievances.
I agree with Fasaadi ... I don't just rely on email or text only.
I think maybe all is not lost. Talk to him (and maybe not let him hear the brunt of all your frustration), and perhaps you can work something out in the middle.
Other thing as just a heads up for future - he doesn't take advance payment (at least he did not in my experience) unless you have your order placed and are satisfied with the design (he explains / draws / shows pics)! And he does not do WU - either you pay him in person or transfer to his legit bank acc. for which there is better security of your and his money!
As for all the bandwagoners who are here to diss someone completely without any personal experience, think before you speak!
Wow, 8-10K on a wedding dress ... and I did my entire Walima in under 4K.
Anyhow, with such large amount of dollars involved, how come he doesnt have an E-Commerce website.
The guy really isn't some aunty with no Internet knowledge or funds. If he uses just one of his joras worth of money he could set up a proper website with a submission form with security. This communicating through WhatsApp deal is so unprofessional especially with so much money at stake. Rather than being hacked I think one of his assistants is doing the scam on the low.
I agree with Fasaadi ... I don't just rely on email or text only.
I think maybe all is not lost. Talk to him (and maybe not let him hear the brunt of all your frustration), and perhaps you can work something out in the middle.
Other thing as just a heads up for future - he doesn't take advance payment (at least he did not in my experience) unless you have your order placed and are satisfied with the design (he explains / draws / shows pics)! And he does not do WU - either you pay him in person or transfer to his legit bank acc. for which there is better security of your and his money!
As for all the bandwagoners who are here to diss someone completely without any personal experience, think before you speak!
I don't think you need personal experience to be able to tell right from wrong. In this case OP is the victim and Dr. Haroon (even though might not be a scammer) needs to learn a thing or two about good customer service!
I can't believe such a well known and famous designer would talk to her like that! Especially the bit where he said he would never do her bridal dress :/ Wth?
Wow, 8-10K on a wedding dress ... and I did my entire Walima in under 4K.
Anyhow, with such large amount of dollars involved, how come he doesnt have an E-Commerce website.
All I know is that you protect your business identity and secure it. For him to be so careless with his primary business account is beyond me. Also, it's not a customer's job to check and double check method of payments. The responsibility belongs to the business to have proper checks in place.
It's not like I decided to send the money over to a random unknown individual that may or may not conduct business via email. I, in fact, sent it to the correct person who is known to do business through these means as confirmed by ladies who've ordered from him.
The only difference (which really got me in trouble) is that I wasn't handed his personal bank details via phone or in person; I actually prefer receiving this information written, rather than on the phone where there is more risk of getting it wrong. That doesn't make this a customer's fault.
Also, the thought did cross my mind that his could very well be one of his assistants and that's why he was so quick to brush it under the rug.
All I know is that you protect your business identity and secure it. For him to be so careless with his primary business account is beyond me. Also, it's not a customer's job to check and double check method of payments. The responsibility belongs to the business to have proper checks in place.
It's not like I decided to send the money over to a random unknown individual that may or may not conduct business via email. I, in fact, sent it to the correct person who is known to do business through these means as confirmed by ladies who've ordered from him.
The only difference (which really got me in trouble) is that I wasn't handed his personal bank details via phone or in person; I actually prefer receiving this information written, rather than on the phone where there is more risk of getting it wrong. That doesn't make this a customer's fault.
Also, the thought did cross my mind that his could very well be one of his assistants and that's why he was so quick to brush it under the rug.
You don't need to explain yourself. You were not at fault. How would you have known that you were talking to a scammer behind his official work email? I just hope mrs.kazmi makes it all worthwhile! xx
You don't need to explain yourself. You were not at fault. How would you have known that you were talking to a scammer behind his official work email? I just hope mrs.kazmi makes it all worthwhile! xx
Are you getting your dress from her?
I guess explaining and talking out loud with you guys is helping me slowly overcome the loss. Sigh.
I guess explaining and talking out loud with you guys is helping me slowly overcome the loss. Sigh.
OH SORRY I got you confused with someone else who was now getting her jora from mrs.kazmi after a mishap.
I just recently got hitched but my Joras were not by bunto or the kazmis. However they did turn out to be much more drama-free!