Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
I did have a few friends that kissed/held hands (usually in private) and some that went further. VERY VERY FEW (1-2) **actually had sex **and they were more liberal in general anyways. It was mostly just restricted to making out for most of the couples I've heard of. And they tended to be older and on the way to marrying that person (not that I'm trying to justify their behavior; just saying).
How do you know that?
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
^Girls tend to tell each other those types of things (I assume she's referring to her female friends).
I started dating as a teen during my 2 year stint in Pakistan :-)
And no, marriage was not the intent, neither really was getting jiggy with it.
Dated off and on in college, casual as well as with ladies I was interested in from a long term future perspective. don't see the harm in it if you know what you are doing. The advantage is that ability to interact with ladies and understand them better significantly increases.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Again a generalization, they have some of the lowest STD rates, and divorce rates too. I don't know about their pre-martial flings though
Personally most Muslims I know, especially those born in the States (vs those coming from overseas) dont do anything before marriage, especially penetrative.
wow this is so ridiculous. almost ALL My highschool pakistani friends lost their virginity in college, INCLUDING one hijabi girl! (Before they were married). and as far as STD's are concerned, how the hell do you know they have least. obviously they are not going to broadcast it, as it's very private and no doctor would even give out that kind of information . and secondly just because it's not much reported, doesnt mean they dont have it! desis would never even test for those because it would be such a stigma. and third, STD are spread if you dont take precautions, so maybe desis tkae better precaution because they really dont want to get pregnant out of wedlock.
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On dating, I know VERY few who do it, and personally I keep myself too busy to be involved in time wasting ****t like that. You're 22 when you graduate from college need a solid 3-5 years work experience to get anywhere in today's economy. Banks and Med schools aren't taking low grades in either, so you better be a focused young 4 years in college. Has there been temptation? Of course, but I think to myself I waited 25 years,,,why not a few more to share with the woman I love? Also self-preservation and pleasure leads you to learn about yourself and your own body and sexuality.
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you're saying very few pakistanis date??? oh boy. if you only hang out with the ICNA ISNA crowd then maybe, but general non religous pakistanis date just like americans do. great that you havn't had the temptation but don't assume that all pakistanis are like you.
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Part of the experience of self-denial is self-control and bettering oneself, focusing on more important issues like what makes a good wife, coming to greater realizations, like why people who live, ****, and sleep together have far higher divorce rates than those who don't. Largely because marriage has become trivialized, when you get all those things before marriage.
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again more BS. people have higher divorce rate for many reasons, it has nothing to do with having sex before marriage. having affairs after marriage, financial stress, inlaws stress, and many ohter things cause divorce. and just because someone is not divorced does not mean the marriage is successful, some ppl stay married but fight all the time and and very unhappy together. no need to consider divorce such a terrible thing when it can be quite a relief sometimes
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
^that has been my experience as well. knowing as many desis as I do, they are certainly not that far off the mark.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Anyone who says there's less dating in Pakistan is living under a rock...this isn't the 70's
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
My note was pure sarcasm.
yapyap. Whatever.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Anyone who says there's less dating in Pakistan is living under a rock...this isn't the 70's
Yes, folks date in Pakistan. But I don't think the rates are as high as those Pakistanis living overseas.
PS: I live in Pakistan, not under a rock :)
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Anyone who says there's less dating in Pakistan is living under a rock...this isn't the 70's
Or they have been living in Pakistan and don't just pull facts out of their a**es sitting a few thousand miles away.
Since you won't quit bringing up your personal experiences and anecdotes about the people you know in every single thread, let me give you one of my own. I went to one of the most liberal universities in Pakistan, and surprise surprise people who aren't virgin are rarer than Sasquatches and most have never even dated.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
dating happens but often under a burqa in lower/middle class or conservative people and more openly amongst the more liberal people. just because you dont seem to know about it, doesnt mean it doesn’t happen. most people HIDE it. this argument reminds me of this, the anti dating nazi, maya khan :
really messed up of her to do this though, but anway, dating is extremely common in pakistan.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Anyone who says there's less dating in Pakistan is living under a rock...this isn't the 70's
That's not true.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Since you seem to know what you’re talking about, mind giving us a percentage? Because to me when someone says “extreme” a really high percentage comes to mind, and that is something I just cannot digest. Believe it or not, there are still more shareef loug living in this country then not.
Also, I can see a pair “dating” burqa or no burqa, their body language gives it away… And it doesn’t matter if the location is Dolman Mall Clifton or Ammah Park in North Karachi. Still doesn’t reflect much of the population.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Again a generalization, they have some of the lowest STD rates, and divorce rates too. I don't know about their pre-martial flings though
Said it a million times already but the divorce rates are not necessarily because marriages are happier.. In Muslim societies where divorce is easy (ie with less cultural stigma) and the people are wealthier their divorce rates match and even surpass those of many western societies.. Pakistanis aren't respresentative of the whole Muslim word..
Saudi Arabia is said to have the second highest divorce rate in the world with around 62% of marriages ending in divorce, Kuwait more than 50%, Tunisia around 50% in the cities..
Desi culture makes divorce and remarriage MUCH harder for many so it's no wonder our divorce rates are lower..
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Said it a million times already but the divorce rates are not necessarily because marriages are happier.. In Muslim societies where divorce is easy (ie with less cultural stigma) and the people are wealthier their divorce rates match and even surpass those of many western societies.. Pakistanis aren't respresentative of the whole Muslim word..
Saudi Arabia is said to have the second highest divorce rate in the world with around 62% of marriages ending in divorce, Kuwait more than 50%, Tunisia around 50% in the cities..
Desi culture makes divorce and remarriage MUCH harder for many so it's no wonder our divorce rates are lower..
On the other hand, we shouldn't be quick to scoff at the notion that a lot of those people are fairly happy. There's a TED talk on this as well, but the lack of choice actually makes people happier. They rationalize that what they have is the best for them. Juxtapose that with the West, where people insist that they have to do everything with their partner before they tie the knot and still come out unhappy. Of course, I'm assuming this is for cases without abuse.
As usual, the truth is likely in the middle. We shouldn't stigmatize divorce but let's not pretend that making divorce the norm will be much better. People are idiots and if they aren't "forced" to stay in marriages to some degree (again, relatively happy marriage without abuse) a lot of us will simply quit, when putting in the extra effort would have made us much happier in the long term.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
wow this is so ridiculous. almost ALL My highschool pakistani friends lost their virginity in college, INCLUDING one hijabi girl! (Before they were married). and as far as STD's are concerned, how the hell do you know they have least. obviously they are not going to broadcast it, as it's very private and no doctor would even give out that kind of information . and secondly just because it's not much reported, doesnt mean they dont have it! desis would never even test for those because it would be such a stigma. and third, STD are spread if you dont take precautions, so maybe desis tkae better precaution because they really dont want to get pregnant out of wedlock. There are some pretty absurd statistics out there circulated. I once read that 55% of American Muslims marry non-Muslims...that would be saying the majority of couples you meet are with non-Muslim partners, that has hardly ever been my experience.
you're saying very few pakistanis date??? oh boy. if you only hang out with the ICNA ISNA crowd then maybe, but general non religous pakistanis date just like americans do. great that you havn't had the temptation but don't assume that all pakistanis are like you.
again more BS. people have higher divorce rate for many reasons, it has nothing to do with having sex before marriage. having affairs after marriage, financial stress, inlaws stress, and many ohter things cause divorce. and just because someone is not divorced does not mean the marriage is successful, some ppl stay married but fight all the time and and very unhappy together. no need to consider divorce such a terrible thing when it can be quite a relief sometimes
Muslim Americans have a higher divorce rate o.O?
Cite your sources. That is absurd you keep trying to say that Muslim American couples get divorced relatively more than others in society. The American divorce rate stands with Norway at the world's highest. 53%! The most cited Muslim American divorce rate is 33% off of an early and probably unrepresentative (I think less than 60 couples, all south Asian) study in the late 90s at Rutgers.
Again bella I think i've been very respectful in my conversations with you, but this idea that all Muslims are somehow bad, abusive without any sort of statistics, maybe justifying your own marriage (I don't judge you for it) with a white Catholic dude, is not a way to address your own insecurities, or bettering dialogue of serious issues within our own community. I refuse to accept the idea that all Muslims men have x quality, based off of negative media stereotypes, bad experience in your first marriage, with which I empathize, Muslim/Pakistani/Arab men is such a diluted term and refers to a plethora of demograhics, educatoinal level (you think UK Saudi, American desis have the same place in their respective societies?), and cultures. This is bigotry and self hatred at its worst
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
On the other hand, we shouldn't be quick to scoff at the notion that a lot of those people are fairly happy. There's a TED talk on this as well, but the lack of choice actually makes people happier. They rationalize that what they have is the best for them. Juxtapose that with the West, where people insist that they have to do everything with their partner before they tie the knot and still come out unhappy. Of course, I'm assuming this is for cases without abuse.
As usual, the truth is likely in the middle. We shouldn't stigmatize divorce but let's not pretend that making divorce the norm will be much better. People are idiots and if they aren't "forced" to stay in marriages to some degree (again, relatively happy marriage without abuse) a lot of us will simply quit, when putting in the extra effort would have made us much happier in the long term.
What TEDTalk was this?
Interestingly I read divorces filed have gone down after the 2009 recession, with financial strains being the #1 reason why.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Synthesizing Happiness: Dan Gilbert: The surprising science of happiness - YouTube
No matter what you end up with, your mind will compensate for it, which lends credence, IMO, to the notion that we should absolutely marry for compatibility and values, and not solely on attraction. It also puts into perspective why our parents and grandparents were more faithful.
Paradox of Choice: Barry Schwartz: The paradox of choice - YouTube
This one is about consumers having choices but interesting nonetheless.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
On the other hand, we shouldn't be quick to scoff at the notion that a lot of those people are fairly happy. There's a TED talk on this as well,** but the lack of choice actually makes people happier. They rationalize that what they have is the best for them. Juxtapose that with the West, where people insist that they have to do everything with their partner before they tie the knot and still come out unhappy. Of course, I'm assuming this is for cases without abuse. **
As usual, the truth is likely in the middle. We shouldn't stigmatize divorce but let's not pretend that making divorce the norm will be much better. People are idiots and if they aren't "forced" to stay in marriages to some degree (again, relatively happy marriage without abuse) a lot of us will simply quit, when putting in the extra effort would have made us much happier in the long term.
Ok, I have to agree with this part.
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Wait, I’m confused - didn’t you make the following sweeping generalization 
Re: Desi Muslim Dating in the West
Sometimes it forgets which ID logged on to.