depressed girls after marriage

I have some experience of these things in my own family. Some thoughts:

a) Masoom: Do not assume that a gora/gori therapist will not be able to help you because they do not understand your culture. At least give it a try! Culture is not the absolute barrier to understanding that some people assume it is. Also, we goras are smarter than you give us credit for---if you explain your situation and we are good listeners, most of the time we'll come to some understanding! :) And finally, almost all professional training curricula in psychology/psychiatry today include at least basic training in cultural sensitivity, etc.

b) Depression is not a matter of someone not praying, not believing in God, just feeling 'down', etc. It is a very real disorder and manifests itself in very extreme and deeply affecting ways. It's offensive and ignorant to suggest otherwise.

c) My mom has had lifelong severe mental issues----primarily depression, but also obsessive-compulsive disorder and bipolarism. For most of her life she would not get help. The last 15 years she has started taking meds, but her drug combos stop working after awhile and they have to tinker with the therapy, and any medical professional knows that with psychiatric meds its extremely difficult to find the exact 'sweet spot' where the meds work perfectly for any individual's condition. It's not like blood pressure medication, etc., where the effect is much more uniform and predictable across patients. The first time my mom tried to commit suicide I was three years old. Her most recent attempt was two months ago. She spends a lot of time in and out of the psych ward and has psychotic breaks at least once a year. She is currently on electroshock treatments and a cocktail of meds---electroshock is pretty drastic therapy and a last resort.

d) Now that I've told you the above, let me tell you what this has done to our family:
---my mom got married when she was 16 and was miserable from day one. She immediately set about trying to have babies to fill the emotional void. I was the first one that lived (I was born when she was 20---she had a miscarriage and two stillbirths before me.) My earliest memories are of visiting her in bed because she would spend all day in bed, and she would tell me that she didn't really love my father and that she pictured herself sitting on a fence holding a gun in her hand wondering if she should kill herself---great material to share with your three-year-old kid, huh?
---Two more kids later my mom decided she needed to collect more children, so she convinced my dad to adopt. My youngest sister came from an extremely abusive situation and was adopted through the foster system. My mom thought having another kid around would make her feel like her life had purpose but obviously didn't have the emotional capacity to provide for another child, especially one with such a bad past. My mother was very emotionally and verbally abusive to all of us, but especially to me and to my youngest sister.

---My dad worked his a** off his whole life to support us. He was naive enough to believe that if he gave my mom whatever she wanted she would be happy. Since I was little, she was a compulsive shopper who would spend a lot of money on the stupidest things and our house has always been crammed full of her 'collectibles.' In the meantime, my mom would rarely cook or clean the house; me and my siblings learned how to make our own meals, etc., at a young age, and from a young age would find our own odd jobs from neighbors, relatives, etc., to provide things for ourselves because money was constantly tight due to my mom's habits. Since the age of 13, my parents have rarely provided me any support for buying school clothes, school supplies, etc.---they gave me a roof over my head from 13-18, but half the time I would even buy my own food. Needless to say she rarely did anything for my dad---he rarely came home to a meal on the table that was made by her, and every morning he made his own breakfast and packed his own lunch. He worked most weekends and holidays to make overtime so he could keep up with the bills. Anyhow, after 25 years of living like this my dad developed heart disease and had to have a triple bypass five years ago. Since then he has had several more heart procedures, is being treated for sarcoma in his lungs, and is on meds for high cholesterol and blood pressure. He still has to work because my mother won't/can't and there is no other means of support. They are deeply in debt, with nearly $400K in debt on their home alone because of constantly taking out home equity, etc., (and their home is only actually worth about $250K.) This does not include other loan debt, including debt on credit cards that my mother keeps secretly opening behind my dad's back. They have no retirement savings and my dad is so tired. One of my sisters cooks for him because my mom won't even drag herself to the kitchen to make a heart healthy meal for him. We have tried to talk to my dad about his enabling---that he continues to let my mom spend away their lives, has sacrificed all his health for nothing---but all he will say is that if there's a chance it will make her happy he's willing to sacrifice.

So the situation today is this: I will never reject my family, but I keep my distance from my mother. I have accepted we will never be a 'normal' family. I have accepted that my dad will probably drop dead on the job in a few years trying to provide for my mother, and that until that day he will refuse all help from us because of his pride. I have accepted that when this happens my mother will be left completely destitute and will lose house, etc., and whether she likes it or not will have to move in with one of us, and we will have to cope with how to protect our own children from her, her moods, her cruelty, her manipulative behavior, her inappropriateness in what she will say or do around young kids, etc. I think my experience actually made me stronger---I'm extremely independent, learned from a young age how to make wise decisions for myself, etc. out of necessity, and became a high achiever because I was so desperate to work myself out of this situation. But naturally I struggle with the fact that my kids will never know my mother as a loving, healthy grandmother, and my independence is so extreme that it has been hard for me to let other people into my emotional world to rely on, to provide for me in any way, etc., and this can be lonely. In my youngest sister's case, she was never able to deal with the disadvantages of our upbringing. She left home, moved in with an unemployed, abusive boyfriend and his parents, smokes, drinks, barely holds down a minimum wage job, has no plan in life, and is now pregnant. Her life has become like a Jerry Springer episode. We ended up at two ends of the spectrum in how we dealt with our childhood.

I've never had any issues with depression and am happy every day to be alive. I wouldn't change any of my past because it made me who I am. I also acknowledge that my mother's situation is extreme and that many people with depression will function on a much higher and wiser level than her, and I'm not suggesting that any guppans/guppis who are dealing with depression risk the same situation as mine since everyone is different. But this is the most important thing this has taught me: if you are depressed or have other mental issues, you cannot EVER expect the solution to come from outside yourself. Getting married, having kids, having your own house, buying pretty things, etc., is not going to make you better. So rather than risking messing up a whole bunch of other lives, and creating a situation that in 30 years will lead to a broken family and broken hearts, do whatever you have to do to get better before you get married. Go to therapy, see if meds can help, try to find your purpose in life in a constructive way by volunteering, getting involved in the community, seeking a rewarding education and career, etc. Don't go nailing down some guy and then start producing children because you expect them to be responsible for your happiness---you risk destroying them all along with yourself.

Sorry this is so long! And I'm **NOT **looking for any sympathy, etc.!!! This is just my story, and I can't change it, but I thought this might be a good thread to give my advice on how to deal or not deal with a very tough situation.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

NYCgori- you go girl!

Thanks for sharing your story.

Alot of people need to understand what depression is about and other mental health issues its such in important but ignored and tabood issues amongst the asian population.

Fact:- the highest rate of suicide and self harm is amongst young white males and young asian females.

This attitude of just get over it, you are not religious because your being punished or make your self happy with material goods needs to stop.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1538599

South Asian women are at an increased risk of self harm. Their demographic characteristics, precipitating factors and clinical management are different than whites. There is an urgent need for all those concerned with the mental health services for ethnic minorities to take positive action and eradicate the barriers that prevent British South Asians from seeking help. There is a need to move away from stereotypes and overgeneralisations and start from the user’s frame of reference, taking into account family dynamics, belief systems and cultural constraints.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

NYCGori - Wow! That was tough to read!

It's all good, I made it out alive and we all have our qadr, right? But when I have the opportunity I like to make a strong point that anyone who is experiencing these issues really needs to work hard to get whatever help they can before bringing more people into their life story.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

Alvena do u think meditation or relaxation therapies will work with MK's situation? i think i got severe depression after first delivery but somehow docs won't recognize it n i fought with it with on my own. For me excercise n meditations did make diff.Alhudullilah i was better with b4 next preg n didn't exp it again. but may b it was nothing as compared to MK's.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

With MK's situation maybe not, because its a different situation, there are more complicated symptoms...

But with post natal depression there are 3 main different types and its very imortant to distinguish between then.

There is the 'baby blues', 'Post natal depression' , and 'post natal psychosis'

Baby blues start within 2 weeks of giving birth and affect many many women about 75-80 %

You feel like crying all the time and at anything, feel like you cant cope with the new baby and irritated, but it goes away within 1-2 weeks especially if you have support.

Post Natal depression affects 15% of women and starts from 1 month to 1 year after delivery, you feel low in mood, you have difficutly sleeping, no motivation to do anything, changes in your eating, no sex drive and poor concentration.

Post natal psychosis affects 1 in 500 and you start hearing things and seeing thingswhich arent there, have strong beleifs which arent usual to you 'vehems', paranoia and cant think straight.

Post natal psychosis is a medical emergency.

Ok so mabrook, im not sure if you had the blues or full on depression but im guessing the blues? as this usually does go away without medical help and doesnt re occur.

If you have the baby blues, you need lots of support, you need to work on yourself and take time out so yes meditation and relaxtion is good and you need to make time to enjoy with your partner. You should excercise and eat well.

With PND you need to seek medical advice, if one person isnt listening speak to another!

Re: depressed girls after marriage

i think i had post natal depression plus i had depressive cylcles during preg. friends thought it was due to harmonal changes but after delivery it became worse. i kept it a secret n kept fighting with it. when i finally gathered courage n talked to doc abt it they brushed me off saying my syptoms didn't exactly come under the def of depression coz they didn't continue for 14 days or longer but had shorter cycles. it did last on n off till 2 -3 yrs afterwards. meanwhile i took no medication n got no support but somehow Alhumdulliah i made thru it. Still now if i don't take care of myself i fall easily into depressive modes where i wish to go no-where, talk to no body, yell @ small things for days. but my husband n kids make me keep going. i just find no use talking to any doc as they never understood my prob. may b its not too severe. i just sometimes worry i don't get into trouble in my old age :)

Re: depressed girls after marriage

u girls are amazing... God bless u all

Re: depressed girls after marriage

My question is y wud a person suffer from depression in the first place, when dey dont have ny trauma history, ny serious issues in life, no lack of achievements....etc. Simply a person who doesnt have ny reason to depression.

Also widout saying their is no reason needed to get depression. Reason is always their for even a minor finger slash. Dont see Allah's system so erroneous people.

Y dey get that widout setting blames on genes n ny hormones?

How does u people's science explain that?

Re: depressed girls after marriage

I think Alvena can explain this better but Depression is actually a medical condition when it lasts for a certain period of time (longer than 3 months? not sure abt that) but anyway, it can be caused by actual imbalance in the brain of certain chemicals necessary for emotional stability. Docs dont know why this happens but there are medications that can help the brain balance the chemicals that it needs to function smoothly and happily. People with true depression cannot help it, they will be depressed no matter how happy their situation may seem. Its a disease that can be controlled with medication and/or counselling.

That said, there are many docs in the mental health profession who will prescribe medications to those who arent truly suffering from depression. The medications are very over used at least in the USA. Theres a vast difference between actual depression and a passing case of "the blues" that all of us experience from time to time. So you really need to find a reliable doc who will really take careful care.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

^Ok, Ofcourse it still needs alot to be said n explained to cover the question. My question wasnt about solution like meds n etc. The reasons. U said :People with true depression cannot help it, they will be depressed no matter how happy their situation may seem".

This is one such situation iwanna dig in further. To be in a happy situation and to seem to be are different ofcourse. So the question remains there.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

Now another thing. Those people who say depression has absolutely nothing to do with religion, ican only feel sorry for them.

US is reported to have the highest depression %age in world. Stats changed now , idont know. One of the main reason attributed to 'loneliness'.

Sometime baq, i stumbled upon a report/article, which submitted that one of the major issues US gov. facing is the conversion of people to Islam.
Reason: Due to severe depression and void and naught communication wid God , people are shifting towards spirituality.
Ofcourse it detailed about the measures US gov is taking to stop the ppl, that ihad quoted if still had the report.

Now , another group of psychologists, n dey foreign based too, for the ppl who think only pakistani associate psychological disorders to religion, said , people closer to religion, GOD , and having faith in DUA(prayer) r less likely to suffer from depression ,severe depression and it's symptoms. Their tendency to beat them is greater.

And still the fast conversion of americans to Islam is an issue to US gov.

Ever thout y US is so much after the most powerful country of muslim world. Pakistan. and Islam. Their line is "Every muslim is a terrorist".

But still their gov. is facing the issue how to stop conversions.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

I think we're getting a bit off-topic here. Religion has nothing to do with clinical depression, nor does culture, country or race. Its a clinical, physical illness. Those who find enough comfort in their country, religion or circumstance to overcome the blues are not clinically depressed. Those who ARE clinically depressed need medical assistance to battle their disease whether its medication or counselling. And the disease of clinical depression can affect anyone - from any culture, religion or race.

Off-topic but your statement "their gov. is facing the issue how to stop conversions" is way off base and simply not true. I can attest to that as a christian-born and raised gori very happily married to a Muslim Pakistani man for over a decade.

well in my case it was new ppl , new place, diff culture, even diff language i cudnt get a word.................. i was so depressed for 2 yrs i just wanted to leave .............................. i was in chronic depression for a vvvvv long time , i even secretely started taking anti dep and muscle relaxants n put on soooooooo much weight . now 5 yrs past im happy n very much in controll of my emotions.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

Action- could please phrase your questions a little more clearly?

are u asking why people get depression, if there is nothing much wrong in their lives?

Or are u saying depression isnt a real issue?

In terms of religion- i have seen many religious and non religious people depressed, its not related, it can be a coping mechanism for some, but someone can be very religious and depressed!

So i will answer your questions to the best of my knowledge if i understand what the questions or...or maybe im just being a little dumb!

(p.s. just got on a research project for child psychiatry yay!)

Re: depressed girls after marriage

^ No i didnt imply anywhere that depression isnt a real issue.

Reworded form. My question is why someone who doesnt have reason to be depressed , no trauma history, other major setbacks in life , who himself can't find the reason to suffering from depression , gets it.

I understand that ur science categorizes depression as an illness itself, like anyother illness one gets. Going by this definition, one can always say that any individual , with a healthy sane mind, things going sound in his life can fall victim to it.

Y? Y wud he suffer from it.

Even psychologists ,generally talking about depression ,relate causes of depression to events happened/enning in a person's past or present life. Usually it is believed that depression attacks ppl when they have something wrong going in their life. Cud be something as old as unresolved childhood matters etc etc.

But still we read alot about ppl suffering from dep. with no apparent cause, everthing in their life is hunky dory. Then Y?? I am asking about this specific group of patients.

Or is it that always the sufferer has some reason which is spilled out during psychiatric sessions.

I never used the words culture, country or race while putting forward my point. I only used religion. And i also never said, while using word religion, that ppl with clinical dep shouldnt seek help.
I was conveying a point, that i also personally believe in i.e., connecting depression to religion.

But ur post's first part made me also realize that depression is treated independently as a disease. Like anyother disease one suffers. Ok that was good to add to my facts list.

And now the last part "Off-topic but your statement "their gov. is facing the issue how to stop conversions" is way off base and simply not true. I can attest to that as a christian-born and raised gori very happily married to a Muslim Pakistani man for over a decade".

I dont know on what basis u can call it untrue. It isnt me who produced the report , it isnt me who reserached it , iwasnt the analyst. They were all americans. I read it sometime beginning of dis year or end of last. And until iread it , ihad always heard similar things, but didnt believe cuz i didnt come accross any such evidence , I dont have the report with me unfortunately, but iwill try to google it and see if ican find it. Not only the article discussed conversion issue, it listed major issues faced by gov. It included dropping literacy rate, economic downturn. Now if one doesnt believe in the "conversion" part i wrote here, he wud definitely know the other two , are real and existing issues faced by US gov. Then if those cud b true den y cant the first one be.

Anyhow u can google and find some amazing facts urself. And Sorry but ur statemnt chirstian-born raised gori....married to Muslim man, i dont c how it fits in this discussion, or how u can use it to attest that above statement wasnt true. I dont c how u can compare an individual case to a population over 303million . And didnt even talk about a specific one case, christian wife and muslim husband. I just dont c how it fits in here.

N den i didnt make up any facts or details. Govs keep such information discreet, how things get leaked,... idont know.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

Right i understand now!

Ok so i thought i might explain a little bit about depression first...its going to be a long post so bear with me.

Depression comes in many forms, it can be just one episode and mild/moderate/severe or with psychotic symptoms it can also be recurrent again mild moderate and severe.

Its classed as mild moderate or severe depending on what symptoms the person has.

To be classed as having depression a person must have a SUSTAINED LOW MOOD FOR 2 WEEKS + other symptoms.

The more symptoms and the worse the symtoms- the more severe the depression.

Ok in terms of how it comes about-

There is a model in mental health called the DIATHESIS MODEL.

This model states that for someone to have a mental health disorder there must be 3 factors:

1) predisposing factor
2)precipitating factor
3) maintaing factor

Many cases of depression are triggered by stressful life events but not everyone becomes depressed under such circumstances.

The answer appears to be that social, psychological, and genetic factors act together to predispose to, or protect against depression

So people from a lower socioeconic class or from single parent families can be more likely to get depression...and im not saying always! its usually a complex mix of lots of things!
Alcoholics and drug users are also more likely to get depressed

Genetic factors 1st degree relatives of people with depression can be more likely to become depressed. not always but can be predisposed to it, its related to neurotransmitters in our brains such as seretonin (the happy hormome) and adrenamilne. ( the treatments for depression incerease the amount of seretonin in the brain)

Psychological factors and way of thinking- some people are positive and some are negative, some are anxoius and some arent, some can cope better and some cant- it all has an effect.

So thats predisposing factors....now say someoen has a few of the predisposig factors and nothing happens in their lives that effects them significantly (precipitating factor)... for some its a death in the family, others its a car crash and for others its a i cant cope with looking after 4 kids and trying to run the the house and my husband is away working all day, for others its their image, for some its sexual assult. It can be anything for that certain person if they have predisposing factors.

Then there has to be a maintaing factor- so the issue goes on, they get no support, they get no treatment, something else happens.....

So to answer your question- people who seem to have lovely lives may fall into depression because yes they have something in their child hood and something has triggered it, or from the outside things look fine but from the inside you dont know whats going on, you dont know whats going on in that persons brain at all.

Depression effects everyone differently and to the outsider they may not understand because they dont see whats so depressing!

I dont know how clear i have been so ill try and give an example comparing two of my past patients.

1) 55 year old gujarati man, he worked at a high level in the pathology labs, he lived in a large house with his 2 sons, their wives and his grandchildren who he loved very very much, his two daughters also lived near by.

His wife was suffering from cancer and it was expected she would die soon, after her death he became severely depressed, now yes its understandable to feel depressed and be very upset but he became so depressed he tried to commit suicide and was bought into hospital, 1 year on and he still didnt recover because his thoughts haunted him, his memories of death in the 1947 war when he lost his father....now to many people this is kind of understandable.

patient 2) 19 year old white girl, very nice middle class family, very very well educated and studying- she came in after cutting her stomach and thights and losing alot of weight and sleeping all day but having insomnia at night.....to an outside...they would thing why is she depressed everything in her life seems perfect she has a nice family, good school, pretty, slim, no money problems.....she had serious self esteem issues after being bullied as a young girl at school.

So basically in short.....people who get depression dont just get it....they must have predisposing, precipitating and maintaing factors.

You can never say as an outsider that ' so and so has no reason to be depressed' because even if the are your best friend, your sister, your cousin....you dont know what their thoughts hold.

Re: depressed girls after marriage

Alvena, that is very enlightening, thank you! And I wish you the very best with your research project!!! Hope to see you in the medical journals!!!

A.S, I think we are just misunderstanding each other a bit here. I'd like to see the report you spoke about beccause I have never experienced negativity regarding Muslim conversion and since I;ve lived in US all my life you'd think I'd have seen or heard of this negativity at some point yeah? But anyway, that particular subject doesnt have much bearing on depression except for the fact that those who find solace in religion can sometimes (but not always) overcome emotional issues better than those who do not have that particular solace.