Demolishing homes of ‘suspected’ trouble makers is something I have always criticized. To me it was a symbol of oppression and tyrannical rule no matter how effective, it looks inhumane thing to do. Russians did it free handedly in Afghanistan, Israel does it on a regular basis. US is no different in Iraq or Afghanistan.
And I was totally disturbed knowing that Pakistan Army is also following the same footsteps. Indeed a new low ..
Re: Demolishing Homes
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Demolishing homes of ‘suspected’ trouble makers is something I have always criticized. To me it was a symbol of oppression and tyrannical rule no matter how effective, it looks inhumane thing to do. Russians did it free handedly in Afghanistan, Israel does it on a regular basis. US is no different in Iraq or Afghanistan.
And I was totally disturbed knowing that Pakistan Army is also following the same footsteps. Indeed a new low ..
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sure its low, but its lower to do the things these people are doing.
The term 'these people' should not be used for 'our people'. They were and are part of Pakistan. Besides 'innocent until proven guilty'
If someone is against the policy of Police torturing the families of murderers, robbers, tax evaders than he/she should be against demolishing homes of "suspected" terrorists or their "suspected" collaborators. The margin of error is too big and emotional trauma cause by seeing a home being demolished is even bigger.
Policies of colonization were never removed from the Pakistani establishment.
Re: Demolishing Homes
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
Demolishing homes of ‘suspected’ trouble makers is something I have always criticized. ....
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Hold your horse Ahmad J. Don’t you go on bringing cases from all over the world. Homes and businesses are only demolished in FATA area according to “Ilaqa Ghair traditions”. Pushtoons tribes have been doing that to each other for a long time. Pak army is doing what Romans should do in Rome.
Paktika and Wazirastan areas were infested with Arrrab MAToo terrorists. As you can see that Paktika is relatively trouble free since the start of Pak army ops in Wazirastan.
You may think it is a joke to attack American or Pakistani forces, we don’t.
antiobl, first of all I have never heard of such tradition among the FATA people that they will demolish homes of their enemies; they wouldn't even know how to operate a bulldozer. They are known to avenge their deaths through the in famous jirga system and at times personally among families but that's about it.
Secondly, even if it was true, crumbling moral high ground just because others are doing it is stupidity.
pakistan army has surpassed the israeli defence forces in brutality and barbarity. what else can i say? homes have been demolished for like 6 months in FATA now..imagine how many people are without homes. and not only homes, shops..so now people cant even earn bread for their family. and since in pakistan, mostly one man is the bread runner for the entire family, it means the entire family suffers.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
1. I have never heard of such tradition ..in.. FATA [because] they wouldn't even know how to operate a bulldozer. T
2. Even if it was true, crumbling moral high ground just because others are doing it is stupidity.
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For #1 go visit and live in FATA for a while. You’d know it, especially when you want to rent “Degs” from the FATA village near Chaman.
For #2, Pakistan sincerely tried to gain “moral high ground” for the last 2 years. Arrrrab MAToos do not respect any high ground. You don’t even know what the terrorists have done to FATA area. Pak Army ops are already too late. They should have started two years ago.
antiobl,
If you have any reports, even unconfirmed reports, or just an online reference to back your claim then please let it be known. Otherwise your claims are as good as mine.
Ahmadji Bhaijan, Anti is apna Banda! Ziada sawal shawal rehnay daiN.
Demolishing the house of a perpetrator has never been practised in FATA. The British demolished the houses of freedom lover Pashtuns, the idiots must have thought that by demolishing their houses they could stop the Pashtuns from fighting them. Their slaves have only taken over this evil custom form their masters.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
If you have any reports, even unconfirmed reports.....
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FCR (Frontier Crimes Regulations) allows the tribal folks to govern themselves. In case of criminal activity Feds go easy on the people. Jirga system steps in and makes legal decisions. Jirgas have always used house demolition as ultimate punishment against the offenders.
The same FCR rules allow the Feds to step in if things go out of hands of Jirga.
This time terrorist activity did go out of hand. Across the border from Wazirastan, Paktika saw a spate of Arrrrab terrorist attacks. As you can all see those attacks have almost disappeared since Pak-Army ops in Wazirastan.
It would be a separate discussion to cover FCR. I think FCR is outdated.
It has resulted in illegal trade in drugs, weapons, cars, and hostage taking. It has also discouraged the development of factories and other businesses in the area.
Sha, refrain from commenting on topics beyond your comprehension.
Here is the news from Dara Adamkhel.
Kidnapper’s house demolished
By our correspondent
DARA ADAMKHEL: The house of a criminal was demolished and his entire family was expelled from the gun-manufacturing town as punishment under the tribal tradition for kidnapping a school student for ransom.
Imran Afridi was held responsible for the kidnapping of Attaur Rehman, a 4th class student at a local school and the tribal Lashkar moved against the culprit after his refusal to pay Rs 400,000 which he received from the family of the child as ransom and was also fined Rs 500,000 by the jirga. The culprit refused to pay the amount, which resulted in the blasting of his house and expulsion of the family from Dara Adamkhel instantly.
While the political administration of the town has also issued notices to tribesmen believed to be involved in the armed robberies near Kohat Tunnel during in the recent past. The group of local tribesmen, sources said was involved in the armed robberies wherein the wanted tribesmen have gone into hiding. The administration also recovered two vehicles from the Akhwarwal and Mullan areas of Dara Adamkhel.
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*Originally posted by Madhanee: *
Ahmadji Bhaijan, Anti is apna Banda! Ziada sawal shawal rehnay daiN.
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Thanks but no thanks Madhanee. Ahmad J. can always question. I am only a "Banda" (Man) of Allah and his Messenger saw.
Thanks again for the kind gesture. I really appreciate it.
Anti yaar, I know there’s no need to say this, but I do find your contribution here to be of top quality and well thought of. There are certain issues and outlooks where I see myself in disagreement with your views, and when such situations arise, I change my views. To me personally, you are source of knowledge.
Sincerely,
Madhanee MAToo.
Shawa here is Example #2
HOUSE DEMOLISHED: Activists of Bara Peace Committee on Tuesday burnt the house of Wilayat Shah in Arjali Nadee area of Shalobar. Wilayat Shah was found guilty of killing Ismail Khan a few days back. The committee had also imposed a fine of Rs500,000 on Wilayat Shah.
source: Dawn newspaper
http://www.dawn.com/2004/08/25/local24.htm
Shawa, here are many more examples.
… in 1999 in the Waziristan Agency, a man belonging to the Bara Khel tribe was executed by firing in the presence of thousands of spectators. He had been tried by a tribal jirga for killing a fellow tribesman over a property dispute. The jirga also ordered the demolition of his house and fined him half a million rupees. In 2000, a jirga in the Orakzai Agency awarded the death penalty to two men who had been accused of kidnapping for ransom. The convicts were executed by a firing squad. In 2001, one Shamsul Qamar was executed in Khyber Agency under a local jirga’s orders. He was shot dead by the heirs of the man he had allegedly killed. In another case, a jirga in North Waziristan ordered the execution of an Afghan, Abdullah, who was accused of first sodomising and then stoning to death an 11-year-old boy. The man was shot dead by the boy’s father.
Source: Newsline
Re: Re: Demolishing Homes
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*Originally posted by nomaan: *
sure its low, but its lower to do the things these people are doing.
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Yeah US people are the only trouble makers in your eyes.
Pakistan is cleansing those areas of Pashtun inhabitation. Anyways, what goes around comes around, YOU people have to wait for the second phrase. :)
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“Ilaqa Ghair traditions”. Pushtoons tribes have been doing that to each other for a long time.
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Yeah right, if we do it to our people it is not a big deal, but right now it's Pakistan, a non-Pashtun people who are doing that to us.
Only Almighty God knows how the retaliation would be.
Re: Re: Re: Demolishing Homes
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*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
Yeah US people are the only trouble makers in your eyes.
Pakistan is cleansing those areas of Pashtun inhabitation. Anyways, what goes around comes around, YOU people have to wait for the second phrase. :)
Yeah right, if we do it to our people it is not a big deal, but right now it's Pakistan, a non-Pashtun people who are doing that to us.
Only Almighty God knows how the retaliation would be.
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Who are YOU people. Why is it always YOU this and that. The world is note defined in ethnic terms. If Musharraf is a mohajir and he orders these things, it's his stupidity, not something you can blame all mohajirs for. If one Pashtun smuggles heroin, it doesn't mean all Pashtuns are to blame. There is no YOU here. There are a few idiots doing stupid things in the army.
N
If the people in charge of the army are demolishing homes, they are even stupider than I thought. There’s absolutely no excuse for this kind of sheer idiocy.
I am certain whenever a bomb catches up to Mushy he will know there’s nobody to blame but himself. I am certain his blindly following Americans will end with this conclusion. This whole game has gone on too long.