Democracy in pakistan

Re: Democracy in pakistan

More Islam? How much do we lift our @r$$es off to Saudis and Arabs? What have they going for them that we must emulate? Ok no Arabs, then you must be trying to copy Iranian Mullahtic nonsenses.

Oh Baboo Khan, keep Islam inside your home, and practice it to the hilt. Be the best human that the whole world talks highly about.

But for cryin' out loud, keep this religiousity mumbo jumbo out of the politics. Otherwise we will continue suffering from draconian laws a la Hadoodiat, and our Pakistani-shias, and other minorities will continue getting whacked by the mad Mullahs.

Our Messenger pbuh wanted us to be most truthful (sadiq), trustworthy (amin), and tolerant (rahim). What we have become are the pathetic tribals, terrorists, and worst of all talibobs.

Re: Democracy in pakistan


We can't blame west for all the ills we have in our society. Why can't we just be Muslims without pulling others' pants/legs, without pointing at bad actions of others?

Re: Democracy in pakistan

[quote]
But for cryin' out loud, keep this religiousity mumbo jumbo out of the politics. Otherwise we will continue suffering from draconian laws a la Hadoodiat, and our Pakistani-shias, and other minorities will continue getting whacked by the mad Mullahs.

Our Messenger pbuh wanted us to be most truthful (sadiq), trustworthy (amin), and tolerant (rahim). What we have become are the pathetic tribals, terrorists, and worst of all talibobs.
[/quote]

What would you rather have, secular man made laws, or divinely inspired laws?

[quote]
We can't blame west for all the ills we have in our society. Why can't we just be Muslims without pulling others' pants/legs, without pointing at bad actions of others?
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How can you honestly say that enlightened moderation is a pakistani ideology and not an aberration of the wests view of what islam should be, force fed to pakistanis, and was not created by Henry Kissinger, who happens to be a Jew?

Actually, I think I'll make a poll asking the question I asked antiobl.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

Where did our Imaan/Faith in Allah go when "West" was "force-feeding" us? You have to admit that we ourselves are the weak of faith in God and will fall for any worldly rewards and stray away from the path, if you can't admit that then only God knows if we really deserve the path or not.

Re: Democracy in pakistan


This is just an emotional statement. Man-made laws vs. divine laws is not that black and white thingy. There is a whole lot of gray area in the middle.

Even when we talk about divine laws in Islamic perspective, we are relying on "holy men" to interpret those laws. For Sunnis there are 4 holy men and then the door is closed. For Shias there 12 holy men and then the ayatullahs. So even when the source may be divine, the product we get is very much "man made" or sometimes even worse a "bearded-man made".

So calm down baboo. We have had really bad experience with these heavenly laws that turned out to be very hellish for the minorities and women of Pakistan.

Poll away baboo on whatever your heart desires. But your mentioning of Kissinger and Jews is very hateful Arab styled loaded statement.

We in Pakistan had a Sufi version of Islam that has now been corrupted under the strong influence and Ryals of Wahabism. You folks who live outside the country are enjoying the fruits of enlightened Western societies of EU and US. Still you want to deny our right to live in an open and enlightened environment where Pakistani-Shias won't be bombed by beardos, where Pakistani-Ahmadis will be free to practice their religion and Pakistani-Christians won't be mobbed just because somebody found a small piece of Arabic inscription lying in the street.

Yes you all from UK aloo stores can give us thick speeches while promoting vicious and tribal Arabic Islam. We however are saying Bi Billi Chooha Landora he Bhala. We honestly tried our Mullahtics and we implemented Sharia. Unfortunately it is not for us. So please take it back to the tents of Saudis.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

Do you know anything about piri mureedi and sufi version of islam???

what about dualay/dulla shah kay choohay???

lal husain and his “love” for his hindu mureed madho lal?

do you know anything about “tasawuf”

I dont support any wahabism or barelvism.I try to follow teachings of quran and sunnah thats it.

Minorities are not safe in pakistan and we have laws like blasphemy law which is normally used against a christian becase some muslim have a personal enimity with them.same goes for huddod law used normally againt those women who are raped.who is favouring these laws???

These laws are not islamic as well because they are not interpreted correctly.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

Please dont post lies (in other words, dont fart on the forum)

Re: Democracy in pakistan

What about Baba Bulley Shah, Farid, Shah Hussain, etc?

Re: Democracy in pakistan

:rolleyes: so typical, you either don’t want to believe what actually goes on in Mush’s Pak, or just don’t know.

Probably both

Re: Democracy in pakistan

Just like a plane is great way to travel fast, safe and with comfort, using a plane for effective transportation can only be done by and with the help of trained, well oriented, intelligent, refined, principled, educated, responsible and disciplined individuals known as pilots. The Captain has to be the best, first officer equally good, the engineers smart and quick, the guards vigilant and intrepid, the cabin crew courteous, pleasing and cultured.
Have any of the democratic leaders of the past shown any of these signs ever...?
Unfortunate as it may be, but it's a fact, only military govts, even accompanied by their various flaws, and in particular this govt has shown the common Pakistani a glimpse of all this. I too long for the day when a leader of the people, for the people will be elected by the people, and I hope one day such a leader would not just be elected by the people, but i hope such a leader would also deliver, live up to expectations and install real democracy once and for all to shut all whining for good and i aslo hope that if such a leader failed to deliver, he would also be brought down, punished and disgraced by the people for the people in full democratic spirit.

But until such a day comes, and i'm afraid i dont see it coming soon because i dont see any such democratic person in the present political arena, we have to and must live happily and thankfully with the best version of democracy that we have, it's the closest we have ever been to empowering the masses. The present govt has for a fact given us, a common Pakistani (and I'm in Pakistan), our first experience of feeling what democracy would be like. Ironically it's a military leader who's given us all that. A point to ponder for the previous 'democratic' leaders who always took the common Pakistani into the dark ages of non-democratic existance in reality.

Then we had a label and a hoax underneath. Today we have no label and a glimpse of the real thing underneath. People just ought to realize all that.
Sure there's a lot to be desired, there's a lot of ill going on under military rule right now. Lot must be improved. I agree much must be done.

But there's no use giving a great tool such as a plane to an untrained person. He'd mess it up or kill himself. Sure democracy is a great tool. But as a nation we too need to be smart enough to use it. Rule 1 for use of democracy; literacy, not just academic but of the social, political environment, and ability to reason and freedom to decide without any pressure or something dear at stake.

The 2 biggest messiahs of democracy today; BB and Nawaz never practised what they today suddenly preach. And let's not forget, had Yahya been a bit stiff Bhutto and thus BB would never be as big a deal today. Had it not been for Zia, Nawaz would have been managing his business. These figures have only personal agendas, where were their democratic spirits then when they sought and accepted favours and pardons from the military rulers? Enemies one year and in each other's drawing rooms the next is their lifestyle. It's all a hoax. Pakistan and Pakistanis are last on their priorities. their versions of democracy too are just a joke.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

WELL SAID......WELL SAID.....WELL SAID.....

Re: Democracy in pakistan

bush is much better as a ruler. at leats he does someting for his country. musharaf just does everything for america too.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

the army has done everything great. now tel me what that is LOL.. it has so far failed to liberate kashmir form india. it has taken over the country because it sees fit.

the pakistani police pee in their pants to anyone except the poor. thsi is nt soemthign to be proud of. if an army officer commits a crime and he cant be arresrtted then what is the point of laws? imagine if an army officer decided to do qabzah on your land or beat up your father or did something nasty with your sister? how woudl you feel if he was not arrested? whatw ould you think whent he police say to you we caught do anything because he is a big man.

i wonder if you would be saying that again in such a cocky manner if it affects you directly.? it might not yet but it might do one day soon. would you be so willign to fly the army's flag then?

Re: Democracy in pakistan

I agree with what you said about Benazir and nawaz they didnot serve the country and were corrupt and dishonest.

what the present government gave to ordinary pakistani??did their standard of living improved during the present setup? i know for a fact that our foreign reserves increased because of all the money flown into pakistan by the expats.In big cities like karachi,lahore islamabad the living condition of some I say top 5% further improved.One can see new cars on the road and property prices have increased.

But what about the middle class.A guy who is getting a salary of around 15 to 20 thousand.what about his standard of living??and a driver earning 5000 to 6000 a month.The 70 percent rural population is getting poorer and poorer day by day

The fact is this government did what government before them have done in the past.Corrupt ministers are in the cabinet.we have the biggest sugar scam in which our ministers are also involved.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

i have mentioned shah husain and his "love: for madho lal

bulley shah wrote some beautiful poetry same goes for other poets like shah farid shah husain and other poets from different regions like khushal khan khatak,shah latif etc.But obviously these kalams dont have any religious significance.

poetry is different to religion.shah husain and bullay shah have many controversial topics in their kalams.baba farid verses are also in the granth saab ,the holy books of sikhs

I advise you to read some of these poets and their kalams then pass a judgement on them

The sufis like khawaja gharib nawaz,bhaktiar kaki,shah runak e alam babahuddin zakariya etc convertd hindus to islam no one is denying this but the fact is many of the unislamic trditions started after their deaths and the present sufi system in no way islamic.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

dear friends our disappointing experience with BB & Sharifs shouldn't be construed as failure of democracy.what we need is to strengthen the institutions rather then bemoaning the individuals.CURE OF BAD DEMOCRACY IS MORE DEMOCRACY RATHER THAN NO DEMOCRACY.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

Institutions are made up of people. Strong but humble people make those institutions stronger, while weak and Bharak-baaz (slogan-mongers) people destroy the institutions.

Democracy is not just rule for the vote-winner. It is also the acceptance of the vote-loser.

In our case, vote-losers never work for strengthening the institutions. Why? Because most of the politikos are weak and Bharak-baaz.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

When talking about making institutions strong one always curses the govt for not doing enough, or weakening them and so on. Unfortunately the role of the opposition is also limited (by the opposition itself) to simply and only condemning the govt for each and everything.
And the opposition too instead of trying strengthening institutions focuses more on toppling each and everyhting related to the govt including entire institutions.
They disagree to respect institutions too and want to disband them instead of trying to strengthen them too. It must be accepted that the role of the opposition too is never positive. They always offer negative criticism, never constructive input.
And as a result, each time a govt is changed, the country needs to change its entire ward robe with new institution being built from scratch.
So the opposition is as much a culprit in weakening the institutions because they do their best to keep away from anyhting constructive.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

^^ Right on Haris!

In addition to strengthening institutions in Islamabad, we ought to work on making the local institutions stronger.

People worry too much about the institution in the center and forget to pay attention to the regional institutions. This is like trying to make the head too strong and not working on building muscles for the arms, torso, legs and feet.

The result of such efforts result in a bobble-head freakish monster who always needs crutches (mostly foreign) to carry on its most basic functions. Our regional institutions must work in unison to give the productive and progressive direction to the Feds. It is always give and take. Make the deals but never threaten the center, as it will respond as bobble-head freak.

Re: Democracy in pakistan

according to some other philosphe (i forgot his name:bummer:) democracy or dictatorship is proportionate to the size of the country being run:D

only a country where everyone can easily get in touch with other and comunicate together can be a democracy.
a country too large for this can only be a dictatorship…and the biggets the country is…the stronger the dictator is:D