Ravage can you stick with the topic of discussion please. And yes you may be right however then is the freedom of women propaganda over-rated then. I rarely ever hear of mens rights organizations. Again my intention is to compare were women really that bad off centuries ago as stated or are they no different today but just subject to different form of discrimination. I’m sure some of the points you want to make will automitcally creep into our discussions to gain leverage in our arguments so lets not argue about changing the theme of this thread. Can we agree to disagree later on?