When people say the Liberal Fascists are worse than the crazy nutters that blow themselves up, what do you use to define this weird and obtuse term?
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
its a term popularized by Hamid Mir and Ansar Abbasi... neither of whom have any idea what they're talking about. 'Fascist' doesnt just mean 'bloke I dont like', it has a specific, political meaning. Lets see some definitions:
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an adherent of fascism or other right-wing authoritarian views
relating to or characteristic of fascism; "fascist propaganda"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
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So a little bit of an oxymoron there, given that liberal is synonymous with 'left-wing', atleast in Pakistan.
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Fascism, , is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist
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Nobody in Pakistan's political discourse particularly advocates corporatism. Liberals in Pakistan are also not particularly nationalist, atleast not the ones referred to as 'liberal fascists'. The closest person to being somewhat liberal and nationalist is Imran Khan.
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fascism - A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fascism
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None of these bolded terms even arguably apply to 'liberal fascists'.
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fascism - a philosophy or system of government that advocates or exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, together with an ideology of belligerent nationalism
cidc.library.cornell.edu/Dof/concepts.htm
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See above.
Essentially it is a meaningless term.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
i dont use term liberal fascist but liberal extremist, moderatti (like illuminati)
they are material worshippers who cannot see the logic for religion in politics
when allowed in power they can kill, as we have seen in and around pakistan. they kill having weighed up the balance of military power.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
Liberal-Fascist term is popularized by Ansar Abbasi & Hamid Mir ... neither of them are authority on anything except Ansar Abbasi is pyscho = JI member. Tian Tian ..Fish.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
dont give them so much credit. its not a term coined by them, american right-wing writer Jonah Goldberg artlessly wrote a book linking (American) liberalism with Mussoulini's policies. However there atleast the idea is that liberals supposedly advocate similar 'big government' economic policies leading to corporatism like classical fascists did. While even that book was widely debunked atleast he had an intellectual argument for it. These numbskulls just borrowed his term and people started thoughtlessly propagating it.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
When people say the Liberal Fascists are worse than the crazy nutters that blow themselves up, what do you use to define this weird and obtuse term?
Its an oxymoron. Liberals dont force their oppinions on others, and Fascists cant be liberal.
Fascism applies more readily to religous fanatics who usurp individual rights in the name of their prefered religious doctrine, and force all to ascribe to a single centralized dogma.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
Its a misnomer but the fact remains that country has two groups of people who do not care to respect the sentiments of majority of people of Pakistan. There is a small group of religious right that fancies violence and there is teh other group of westernized people who are priveleged, corrupt, control the state machinery that consider the masses cattle and their beleifs as absurd. They too want to impose their ideas on people.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
History shows us that fascism is associated with the right, which the liberal (left) is often in violent opposition to. The academics around the term are banal and boring...wikipedia it...bottom line is, it is being flippantly applied. And therein lies the rub.
Fascist, in the pejorative sense, is typically one who is willing to employ violence to further their aim. Here you can ignore the academics, as this use of the word has more to do, perhaps, with the anti-Nazi legacy than an ideological stance. So, fascism is often incorrectly ascribed to everyone from Al-Q and other Islamists, to liberals who support violence against the religious right to make space for liberalist ideologies.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
Its a misnomer but the fact remains that country has two groups of people who do not care to respect the sentiments of majority of people of Pakistan. There is a small group of religious right that fancies violence and there is teh other group of westernized people who are priveleged, corrupt, control the state machinery that consider the masses cattle and their beleifs as absurd. They too want to impose their ideas on people.
I disagree. The history of the country has shown that these so called liberals in the govt have time and again fallen al over themselves trying to appease the religious right. From declaring the country an Islamic republic, to banning alcohol, to declaring Ahmadis Non Muslims, its been the religious conservatives who have always had their way.
If the liberals had ever had their way, we might not be where we are today.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
If the religious right had their way, all women would be in burqas, men would be whipped for not praying, no tv, no cinema, no art or culture.
Things like banning alcohol or declaring ahmedis non-muslims are what the majority of Pakistanis feel it should be. You cant consider these demands of a small minority of religious right.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
Liberal Fascist : Mushy, Altaf
Liberals : Asif Ali Zardari, Nawaz Sharif
Religious : JI, Fazlu
Religious Fascistic: SSP, LeJ
I think it says alot
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
People who are being called liberal fascist are the civil society of Pakistan which is always against use of arms and also talk of progress.
Remember Hamid Meer's involvement in killing of Khawajah
Who is fascist ?
which kills or who is being killed.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
to perch from my ivory tower theres a lot of argumentum ad populum going on here. dont dislike ideas or feel they are in any way discredited simply because they happen to be in a minority. the false equivalence between liberals and religious extremists is so lazily thought out.
Religious extremist ideas are dangerous because they advocate your murder for holding a certain opinion. As much as you lot claim it, you have not been able to show any particularly liberal idea that is killing people in Pakistan today.
Im tired of making the same arguments over and over again. See this thread here, the common questions and concerns have been answered.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
The reason I ask is that a lot of arguments so called "liberal fascist" (no matter how ill defined that term is) are also used by Neo-conservatives in the US and more importantly the Bush Administration. They are usually very much in favor of drone attacks regardless of the civilian cost, they are anti-free speech when it comes to the religious fundementalist right and do not support the territorial integrity and independence of the Pakistani government and the views of the majority of its people.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
its a term popularized by Hamid Mir and Ansar Abbasi...
Liberal-Fascist term is popularized by Ansar Abbasi & Hamid Mir ...
Yaar please zara saa homework hee kar liya karo. Ansari and Meer did not coin the term. You might have heard of the term from their mouth for the first time but that does not mean that they popularized the term either. Its an old concept whose roots goes as far back as 1932.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
so please explain the concept TLK. how does liberal square with fascism. also fact that its 'roots' go back to 1932 is not a counter-argument to me saying that its been popularized by Hamid Mir and Ansar Abbasi in a Pakistani context.
I dont want to go into it, but I can do a simple analysis of google hits for "liberal fascist" before and after Hamid Mir/Ansar Abbasi started using it.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
Yaar please zara saa homework hee kar liya karo. Ansari and Meer did not coin the term. You might have heard of the term from their mouth for the first time but that does not mean that they popularized the term either. Its an old concept whose roots goes as far back as 1932.
But this term is first time used for those people of Pakistan who are not from right nor from left but for all who talk of human rights.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
See I am no political analyst so google hit it was for me also. I think its pretty straight forward what liberal fascism means.
Re: Defining a liberal fascist
no it isnt. its pretty wrong. those who use the term dont really mean anything by the fascist bit except as a pejorative.