Defacing Mecca

[Raindance]

Re: Defacing Mecca

I have been to most of these sites ^ list does not include Hazrat Bilal mosque on the hill top looking down at Kaba from where Hazrat Bilal use to call for azzan. This spot was approved by the Prophet Mohammad PBUH
It is rebuilt due to old eroding walls and now frequently visited by all pilgrims without any problems.

Above List does not include the Mosque in Medina where 'Shaq-ul-qamar' was witnessed by Prophet Mohammad PBUH. Now stands as a Most Beautiful Mosque among many Mosques in the area.

Above list also does not give any mention of the 'Qiblatain Mosque' where Hazoor PBUH got wahi from Allah swt for all Muslims to 'Re-direct' their Prayers facing Mecca as umma's new Qibla instead of 'Jerusalem's Al'aqsa,
Now stands THE MOST BEAUTIFULLY renovated and expanded Mosque including Liberary & Jammia.

Above list also does clarifies that Sahaba's Akrams graves are inside a compound at Maidan-e-Uhad. The signs on the compound gates give very clear Refernce & Indication that 'Hazrat Amir Hamza raa' is buried between these bounderis.
(This site has been devastated several time in its history as much so that Qaideen of Medina had to relocate 'Hazrat Hamza' graves to higher grounds away from floods and ground erosion. This commentary is also displayed on the compound wall) Religious Police (Mutawa Women & Men) patrol these grounds to deter pilgrims collecting artifacts or other 'Holy Hadiya from these grounds)

Above list also does mention the elaborate restoration and provisions of comfort and ease for pilgrims to visit '7 Mosques at Khundaq' outskirts of Medina City were a long barracked 'Khundaq' was dug by Prophet Mohammad pbuh and Sahab akeram including Hazrat Amir Hamza. These 7 Mosques are small in sizes and were used for 'Surveillance Posts for Sahaba-e-akram' for any surprise attack by 'Kaffaar-e-Mecca' (These sites are beautifully restored and sits in a very serene outskirt of Medina City. The Greenery alone is mind boggling. This place is truly very peaceful and well maintained by Saudis)

There are so many other places and sites of Holiness that one can go on and on and probably of places that you have never heard of or just read in books.
I'm not Shia by by religion sect but also have visited Baghdad, Kuufa, Najaf, Kerbala Holy Sites, but thats another thread all together.

I'm so blessed and grateful to Allah swt Almighty to bless this humble Muslim to visit these sites and lands again and again but the thirst for more never goes away.
I stand witness in front of Allah swt and categorically deny seeing any 'Destruction of the holy sites nor did I witness any Law being practice to allow Pilgrims to indulge in any Shirk activities.

I remember breaking Ramazan Fast at Khana-e-Qaba when families upon families of local Saudis along with their sons and daughters including infant babies brought Food, Qahwa, Laban, Dates of all varieties distributed among rows upon rows of decently sitting Saims and when these cute little kids poured Qahwa in small cups your heart is so overwhelmed with love and affection, not only for these souls but also for the TRUE DEEN-e-ISLAM and its true unconditional followers.

More later if you want ,,, "Sigh"

[Nussairee]

Re: Defacing Mecca

^Raindance......its good to c tht u love and respect these Islamic sites as well as ppls right to visit these sites without being harassed or called a mushrik as they are all signs of Allah SWT then we r on the same page........

[gosensgo]

Re: Defacing Mecca

Raindance, I have honestly never seen someone make so many justifications and excuses for Saudis destroying historical sites. You gave select examples of some sites being restored or renovated, but you still ignore the fact that the Saudis have destroyed numerous historical sites that played an important role in early Islam.

It's funny, just last week there was a huge uproar about the Israelis demolishing a Palestinian hotel built in the 1930's(and rightfully so, the Israelis have no right to demolish that hotel), yet here we had historical sites from the time of the prophet(PBUH) that had stood the test of time until the Saudis got there but there is barely a peep being said about it, and some folks, like yourself, are even attempting to justify it.

[Raindance]

Re: Defacing Mecca

I'm sorry ^ I give up !
I gave my two cents already!
All I can say is that you are referring to "SITES of Holy Significance which were 1400 YEARS or so OLD ,,,,,, Where as your EXAMPLES are no where near an apple to an apple !

[Raindance]

Re: Defacing Mecca

^Raindance......its good to c tht u love and respect these Islamic sites as well as ppls right to visit these sites without being harassed or called a mushrik as they are all signs of Allah SWT then we r on the same page........

----------------------------------cvabn----------------------------
Good!

I'm sure if you read more about Shirk & Mushrik this picture will become very crystal clear to you. This is how Quran relays its commentary. Scholars and their studies come later. In fact Molana Moududi's tafseer is is good read.

[Nussairee]

Re: Defacing Mecca

^Raindance u r missing a basic point here..........nobody in their right mind in the world wud oppose renovating a site or making a physical adjustment to a site in order to facilitate a public service such as a hotel or a library..........the real problem is in the destructive ideology of Abdul Wahab that is implemented by state tht views many if not all Islamic sites save Kaaba as places of shirk and bidda tht must be destroyed.........if you wish to discuss this then I welcome u to the religion forum as in the past too we have discussed it many a times...........

[system]

Re: Defacing Mecca

@Med911

Its seems that everything that doesnt make sense to you is hyperbole.

If your iman is so weak that you cant look at a woman without thinking of Shirk, then the problem isnt with women, its with your Iman. Yet, in Islam we separate men and women at every instance. Women must cover their hair, or wear a complete burqa. A bar, with all the liquor in the world may be tempting, but the problem isnt with the bar, its with your weak Iman. Yet in Pakistan, we have banned Alcohol! I doubt you would support a law making liguor legal again?

It odd that Muslims insist of separating themselves from Shirk at every opprtunity, yet in this case you say we should embrace it?

Now the Shirk of this Big Ben replica is in the fact that its a distraction from your prayer. Just like women are a distraction, as is alcohol, as are a number of other things that Muslims avoid due to the potential for Shirk. The problem isnt that its a big ben replica, its that its too massive, it dwarves the Kabba, and its really in bad taste. Islam is about being humble, about modesty. Yet this massive building is nothing more then a testament to the self-indulgent ego of the Saudis.

Now im not against big buildings, and on some level I agree that your iman should be stronger then temptation, but this particular project really is way to big, to overwhelming, and uneccesary. It says more of Saudi extravagance then should be permited.

Tell me what tempts you about a giant clock tower?

And I am completely in favour of making alcohol legal and taxed at 300% Do not make assumptions.

[Med911]

Re: Defacing Mecca

Tell me what tempts you about a giant clock tower?

And I am completely in favour of making alcohol legal and taxed at 300% Do not make assumptions.

Well the fact that its a massive complex that could have been built some place else and completely dwarves everythng around it. Its an unwanted distraction.
I general, we avoid such extravagant and gaudy displays.
These among other objections. The original article sums up rather nicely what most of the objections are.

And as for the Alcohol. I agree. But most other Muslims would not.

And there are multiple other examples of Islamic decrees which tell us to avoid such temptations, alcohol is just one example. There is a reason for example, why men and women do not pray together.

[khoji]

Re: Defacing Mecca

I'm sorry ^ I give up !

It is obvious you would give up since it is difficult to justify what is wrong.

[Raindance]

Re: Defacing Mecca

^ It is also Sunnah to let go in such circumstances and hold your peace !

[Med911]

Re: Defacing Mecca

^ It is also Sunnah to let go in such circumstances and hold your peace !

Yes, its called saving face.

[system]

Re: Defacing Mecca

Well the fact that its a massive complex that could have been built some place else and completely dwarves everythng around it. Its an unwanted distraction. I general, we avoid such extravagant and gaudy displays. These among other objections. The original article sums up rather nicely what most of the objections are.

And as for the Alcohol. I agree. But most other Muslims would not.

And there are multiple other examples of Islamic decrees which tell us to avoid such temptations, alcohol is just one example. There is a reason for example, why men and women do not pray together.

So if you were in mecca on prayer or on Hajj the clock tower would distract you and tempt you eh?

[Med911]

Re: Defacing Mecca

So if you were in mecca on prayer or on Hajj the clock tower would distract you and tempt you eh?

Sure, I want to stay focused, not distracted by some obnoxious building shadowing my every move. Maybe I would be distracted, maybe I would be as strong as you and remain focused. But why should that building be there in the first place?

[Nussairee]

Re: Defacing Mecca

Source: PressTV http://www.presstv.ir/detail/161339.html

S Arabia accused of razing Islamic sites
Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:12AM

Saudi Arabia has been accused of an unprecedented onslaught on historic structures in the heart of Mecca and Medina – the cradle of Islam, revered by the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims.

During a meeting at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, world heritage experts called on Saudi authorities to halt the destruction of sites linked with Islamic history, a Press TV correspondent reported.

The experts also voiced concerns over the future of Mecca and Medina due to the rising destruction of historic structures.

They say it’s feared that a number of historic sites will be lost permanently if the current course of destruction is allowed to continue.

“I call it cultural vandalism, of course we lost foreigner historical sites over the past sixty years, which will never be replaced again,” Irfan al-Alawi, from Islamic Heritage Research Foundation, told Press TV.

Saudi authorities, however, argue that they are trying to prevent idolatry.

Necessary expansion and development, or wanton destruction of Islamic history and heritage – that’s the debate forming around the current work of authorities in Hijaz, Saudi Arabia. The land is home to Islam’s holiest sites, where millions of Muslims travel every year for the annual hajj pilgrimage.

A number of sites have already been destroyed, including homes and mosques dating back to the period of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). And there’s now a fear that new projects will mean the permanent loss of earlier Islamic heritage sites.

The experts in the London meeting criticized the Saudi authorities for wiping out “Islam’s historical heritage.”

They also voiced concern about increasing commercial development in Mecca which “is destroying the city’s cultural identity.”

But Saudi authorities claim that they must remove relics from the time of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), in order to prevent people from worshipping them. There’s also increasing demand for larger facilities as the number of Muslims from around the world hoping to perform hajj continues to grow, the officials say.

Some religious leaders say destroying the most precious sites in Islam for fear of idolatry is like killing a child for fear that he may grow up to be less than pious. In effect, they say, behind the obsessive fear of idolatry lies a complete lack of understanding along with a fanaticism so extreme, it prevents such individuals from even being able to appreciate their own past.

DB/TG/HRF

[Med911]

Re: Defacing Mecca

@Nussairee

Source: PressTV http://www.presstv.ir/detail/161339.html

S Arabia accused of razing Islamic sites
Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:12AM

Saudi Arabia has been accused of an unprecedented onslaught on historic structures in the heart of Mecca and Medina – the cradle of Islam, revered by the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims.

During a meeting at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, world heritage experts called on Saudi authorities to halt the destruction of sites linked with Islamic history, a Press TV correspondent reported.

The experts also voiced concerns over the future of Mecca and Medina due to the rising destruction of historic structures.

They say it’s feared that a number of historic sites will be lost permanently if the current course of destruction is allowed to continue.

“I call it cultural vandalism, of course we lost foreigner historical sites over the past sixty years, which will never be replaced again,” Irfan al-Alawi, from Islamic Heritage Research Foundation, told Press TV.

Saudi authorities, however, argue that they are trying to prevent idolatry.

Necessary expansion and development, or wanton destruction of Islamic history and heritage – that’s the debate forming around the current work of authorities in Hijaz, Saudi Arabia. The land is home to Islam’s holiest sites, where millions of Muslims travel every year for the annual hajj pilgrimage.

A number of sites have already been destroyed, including homes and mosques dating back to the period of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). And there’s now a fear that new projects will mean the permanent loss of earlier Islamic heritage sites.

The experts in the London meeting criticized the Saudi authorities for wiping out “Islam’s historical heritage.”

They also voiced concern about increasing commercial development in Mecca which “is destroying the city’s cultural identity.”

But Saudi authorities claim that they must remove relics from the time of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), in order to prevent people from worshipping them. There’s also increasing demand for larger facilities as the number of Muslims from around the world hoping to perform hajj continues to grow, the officials say.

Some religious leaders say destroying the most precious sites in Islam for fear of idolatry is like killing a child for fear that he may grow up to be less than pious. In effect, they say, behind the obsessive fear of idolatry lies a complete lack of understanding along with a fanaticism so extreme, it prevents such individuals from even being able to appreciate their own past.

DB/TG/HRF

^ Watch these Saudi worshipers come to the defense of their masters..

[James_Bhaand]

Re: Defacing Mecca

Saudis are the most arrogant, self centered and egotistic of all the races that ever walked on the face of planet earth (Saudi’s obviously refers to the off spring of Mr. Saud, nothing to do with the other God fearing honest and simple ARABS). They will be facing “makafat-e-amal” pretty soon, within this world, and the punishment that is due on the day of Judgment is due to come later.

They are also the most of all.

Where else in the world would you prevent young girls trying to escape out of a burning school and let them burn and die inside, because they were not DRESSED properly in abayas.

here is an interesting blog i found, written by an Ex-Muttawa (Religious policeman)

The Religious Policeman