http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/arts/design/30mecca.html
thoughts??
Do we, as Muslims have a right to say what goes on there in the official dealing of matters? Or should we just leave it be to the Saudis to do as they please?
Defacing Mecca
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/arts/design/30mecca.html
thoughts??
Do we, as Muslims have a right to say what goes on there in the official dealing of matters? Or should we just leave it be to the Saudis to do as they please?
Re: Defacing Mecca
Has been discussed before.
Re: Defacing Mecca
Two threads?
Re: Defacing Mecca
where? i couldnt find it.
Re: Defacing Mecca
mods please delete this thread. duplicate.
Re: Defacing Mecca
Honestly a Very Stupid decision by the Saudis.
There used to be a mountain there with an Old Ottoman Era Fort. The Saudis destroyed the fort and destroyed the mountain to create this hideous monstrosity.
They could have build this hotel else where, not right next to the Kabaa.
You don't see Italians building a monster sky scraper right beside the Vatican or India building a Skyscraper besides the Taj Mahal.
Saudis decided to build this just to show off. So that all pilgrims will be in awe of Saudis.
Re: Defacing Mecca
There used to be a mountain there with an Old Ottoman Era Fort. The Saudis destroyed the fort and destroyed the mountain to create this hideous monstrosity.
I remember that fort, it used to be visible from outside the mosque, my dad used to show me that when I was a kid. There was a pretty big controversy over that because Turkey didn't want the fort demolished but the Saudis got their way in the end. However I also think that as the number of pilgrims increase they need to utilise what little space they have to accomodate more people. Everyone wants to stay close to haram so skyscrapers unfortunately are the answer, you can't build these hotels any further away because it makes it harder for people to make their for way for prayer 5 times a day.
The Vatican and Taj Mahal really do not compare with the masjid-al-haram, they don't have to deal with millions of Muslim pilgrims every year and Makkah isn't exactly a tourist spot, the Saudis don't need to 'show off' to the pilgrims, otherwise they'd have built something like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai (where land is not even at a premium).
I think you have to go there to appreciate the infrastructure the Saudis have built for the ease and convenience of pilgrims.
Re: Defacing Mecca
well what about the fact that a room in one of those towers can cost you hundreds and thousands of riyals? and massage salons? really? What purpose do they serve in the Holy City?
Re: Defacing Mecca
well what about the fact that a room in one of those towers can cost you hundreds and thousands of riyals? and massage salons? really? What purpose do they serve in the Holy City?
The reason they cost that much is because there are people willing to pay for it. Its simple economics. And not everyone wants to buy a room, there are around 7 hotels around that clock tower, which are usually rooms for rent. I do agree its all the five star hotels up front but you can't stamp out people doing business when there is such huge demand. Five star hotels usually have massage salons, the Saudi govt isn't exactly going to go to these hotels and tell them to close them down, they're all privately owned.
Re: Defacing Mecca
they cud learn a few lessons from Iraq that receives more pilgrims than Saudia.........in Hajj the maximum number of pilgrims does not reach more than 3 million (4 million if u include security, officials, and staff).........whereas in Karbala during Arbaeen the number of pilgrims exceed more than 12 million............and Iraqis charge no ridiculous 'service fees' that the Saudis charge for the Hajj.........
Re: Defacing Mecca
I remember that fort, it used to be visible from outside the mosque, my dad used to show me that when I was a kid. There was a pretty big controversy over that because Turkey didn't want the fort demolished but the Saudis got their way in the end. However I also think that as the number of pilgrims increase they need to utilise what little space they have to accomodate more people. Everyone wants to stay close to haram so skyscrapers unfortunately are the answer, you can't build these hotels any further away because it makes it harder for people to make their for way for prayer 5 times a day.
The Vatican and Taj Mahal really do not compare with the masjid-al-haram, they don't have to deal with millions of Muslim pilgrims every year and Makkah isn't exactly a tourist spot, the Saudis don't need to 'show off' to the pilgrims, otherwise they'd have built something like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai (where land is not even at a premium).
I think you have to go there to appreciate the infrastructure the Saudis have built for the ease and convenience of pilgrims.
Saudis could have build a subway which links Makkah Downtown with the Kabaa and other places so that way people can easily go to Kabaa.
In any case, Saudis are planning more skyscrapers around the Kabaa. They want to turn the area around the Kabaa into another Manhattan.
Re: Defacing Mecca
they cud learn a few lessons from Iraq that receives more pilgrims than Saudia.........in Hajj the maximum number of pilgrims does not reach more than 3 million (4 million if u include security, officials, and staff).........whereas in Karbala during Arbaeen the number of pilgrims exceed more than 12 million............and Iraqis charge no ridiculous 'service fees' that the Saudis charge for the Hajj.........
Quoted for epic truth. 12 million visit Karbala on Ashura and Arbaeen yearly, they haven't found any need to create such gigantic and pointless buildings near the harams.
I don't know if it's true, but I heard they destroyed the home of Bibi Khadija (sa) and turned it into a public lavatory? Not even Atheists would have such disrespect for Islamic heritage, let alone these crazed savages who call themselves Muslims.
Re: Defacing Mecca
Quoted for epic truth. 12 million visit Karbala on Ashura and Arbaeen yearly, they haven't found any need to create such gigantic and pointless buildings near the harams.
I don't know if it's true, but I heard they destroyed the home of Bibi Khadija (sa) and turned it into a public lavatory? Not even Atheists would have such disrespect for Islamic heritage, let alone these crazed savages who call themselves Muslims.
I don't know where you heard that because this is the first time I'm hearing something like that. The Saudis get 3 million pilgrims on hajj only, then there are the Umrah pilgrims all year round. The hotels, save a couple of months, are full throughout the year. There are hotels as far as the outskirts of Makkah and even they are doing business. People already use public transport to get to haram. What you're not getting is that Makkah is a small city and hence it needs skyscrapers. Even the buildings in its normal residential areas (apartments, etc.) are at least 6-7 stories high, as opposed to average 2 or 3 story in buildings in Jeddah.
they cud learn a few lessons from Iraq that receives more pilgrims than Saudia.........in Hajj the maximum number of pilgrims does not reach more than 3 million (4 million if u include security, officials, and staff).........whereas in Karbala during Arbaeen the number of pilgrims exceed more than 12 million............and Iraqis charge no ridiculous 'service fees' that the Saudis charge for the Hajj.........
The services that are provided at Hajj all need paying for, the security, ambulances, hospitals, tents etc. Hence the service charges, do you really think they are looking to earn money from service fees when they're sitting on the world's largest oil wells? Conducting the Hajj is no easy task. The infrastructure in Makkah is there for all to see, whether it's transport, accomodation or public services.
Re: Defacing Mecca
all those services are available in Iraq my friend…actually if anything then there are sterner security arrangements and plenty of complimentary food and snacks not to mention friendly and hospitable officials and public of Iraq…and for the record Saudi fiscal budget that was announced couple of weeks back listed ‘revenue’ from pilgrimage as the 2nd biggest for the Kingdom behind oil which was foretasted arnd US$8 Billion…
btw during Arbaeen in Karbala there are 10million+ people together in one place at the same time and it is the largest pilgrimage gatherings on earth…check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba’een..................the govt has predicted and made the arrangements for the crowd of 12million for Arbaeen this year which is abt 2 weeks away.
Re: Defacing Mecca
Least this thread should be considered a double thread.
Mickeymouse use the search button.
Perhaps use "big ben' to search. I do not remember. Have not checked myself.
Re: Defacing Mecca
well what about the fact that a room in one of those towers can cost you hundreds and thousands of riyals? and massage salons? really? What purpose do they serve in the Holy City?
Sauidis are trying out capitalism. Let see how it goes...
Re: Defacing Mecca
First off, revenue is not profit. Even if it was, they are still reinvesting that into infrastructure. The Makkah - Mina - Muzdalifa - Arafat train project cost SR 6.5billion, are you telling me they have that type of infrastructure in Iraq? The Jeddah - Makkah - Madinah high speed rail is expected to cost $6 billion. Like it or not, development is being carried out all the time for the ease of pilgrims, and that includes skyscrapers. Where land is at a premium, skyscrapers will exist. That is a FACT. I’m not going to waste any more time on this, it’s clear you have a personal vendetta against the Saudis.
Re: Defacing Mecca
Well in Kumbh Mela over 60 million people participated and no skyscrapers were anywhere to be seen.
mind you most of the 60 mil people were poor, didnt pay anything, got free stay from the state, free food and a lot of them were crazy people carrying weapons. it just went well. its all about faith and belief in the stuff u are coming for, money and comfort is secondary.
Re: Defacing Mecca
First off, revenue is not profit. Even if it was, they are still reinvesting that into infrastructure. The Makkah - Mina - Muzdalifa - Arafat train project cost SR 6.5billion, are you telling me they have that type of infrastructure in Iraq? The Jeddah - Makkah - Madinah high speed rail is expected to cost $6 billion. Like it or not, development is being carried out all the time for the ease of pilgrims, and that includes skyscrapers. Where land is at a premium, skyscrapers will exist. That is a FACT. I'm not going to waste any more time on this, it's clear you have a personal vendetta against the Saudis.
errr...thanks for the lecture but I happen to have a degree in business and know the diff b/w revenue and profit.........u wud think that Saudis dont need that money since they got oil but Hajj is listed as the single biggest EARNER for the kingdom after oil and u r speculating that ALL the revenues are reinvested back (reinvested in Les Vegas, may be).........pilgrims are charged over US$600 each.........now try doing the maths! they can make as many as 30 Haramain Train projects only by what they earn in a year of the pilgrims! and btw many services such as the Haramain train are paid services therefore they r self sustained ..........and for the record this year the train was in function but it was 'Arabs Only'.........show ur passport and enjoy the service...........
as for the skyscrapers........they exist for the ease and comfort of the 'rich'...........do you have any idea what their charges are? they charge as much as staggering US$9,000 a week!
And yes......I do not exactly love a bandit tribe from Najd ruling over the Muslim holy sites and one that destroyed Muslim heritage and continues to be the single biggest exporter and supporter of terrorism around the world.............