errr...thanks for the lecture but I happen to have a degree in business and know the diff b/w revenue and profit.........u wud think that Saudis dont need that money since they got oil but Hajj is listed as the single biggest EARNER for the kingdom after oil and u r speculating that ALL the revenues are reinvested back (reinvested in Les Vegas, may be).........pilgrims are charged over US$600 each.........now try doing the maths! they can make as many as 30 Haramain Train projects only by what they earn in a year of the pilgrims! and btw many services such as the Haramain train are paid services therefore they r self sustained ..........and for the record this year the train was in function but it was 'Arabs Only'.........show ur passport and enjoy the service...........
as for the skyscrapers........they exist for the ease and comfort of the 'rich'...........do you have any idea what their charges are? they charge as much as staggering US$9,000 a week!
And yes......I do not exactly love a bandit tribe from Najd ruling over the Muslim holy sites and one that destroyed Muslim heritage and continues to be the single biggest exporter and supporter of terrorism around the world.............
Well you do admit you're biased. So the skyscrapers cost more, so what? The simple reality is where there's more demand prices are higher. Maybe they're not reinvesting all their earnings into infrastructure for pilgrims, it doesn't matter, I think they are entitled to spend it in whichever way possible, there are other places in Saudi that need public spending too. Allah has not made pilgrimage compulsory on us because not everyone could afford it, whether it was in the Prophet's (pbuh) days or whether its the 21st century. I know the trains were only for Saudis this year, it was only a trial run and I'm sure they will be open to everyone next year.
Well in Kumbh Mela over 60 million people participated and no skyscrapers were anywhere to be seen. mind you most of the 60 mil people were poor, didnt pay anything, got free stay from the state, free food and a lot of them were crazy people carrying weapons. it just went well. its all about faith and belief in the stuff u are coming for, money and comfort is secondary.
There is a difference between kumbh mela and the Hajj/Umrah, people come from all over the world ALL YEAR LONG. Not all pilgrims will be poor and looking for free stay. You're right that it's all about faith and belief but that doesn't mean people will not want any comfort or facilities. If you look at Madinah, the hotels surrounding the Masjid Nabwi are all restricted to a certain height and there are no skyscrapers, because Madinah unlike Makkah is not a congested area where space is at a premium.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blindly defending Saudis, I know very well that they are among the biggest racists in the world, especially to us South Asians. But I can't deny that there are many good Saudis too and the Saudi govt does put in a lot of effort to accomodate pilgrims throughout the year.
yes, because I do not see and judge thru the standards of the capitalist-material world…and I try to care abt our religion and its values…its sad but may b 8 out of 10 ppl will be mesmerized by these huge towers next to Kaaba and call it ‘progress’…
I do not believe that much good can come out of a clan of dacoits and rapists who stole the power by force, and continue to rule thru power and support given by their godfathers in the West…here is a prince and an ex minister telling the world abt whats they really value…
That's a informative thread for me. Thanks for the info.
I can't add much myself, except that shame at Saudi Najadis, Hejaz-occupiers.
As far as I understand, the defacing of Makkah has more to do with ibnul Wahhab's teachings than revenue generation. Saudis have always looked for excuses to erase every building related to Islam's history.
What they are doing is not just the loss of Islam but the loss of an extremely important epoch of human history.
^^ exactly, I remember couple years back, we had a thread in religion on demolition of Hazrat Khadija's house. It is extremely sad that they are erasing these important sites of that era. Such sites should be restored for centuries to come then to be demolished for a sky scrapper.
I have seen people often jumping up and down without having info about the ground realities, yes Meccans have raised high rise and that is with the intentions to make healthy profits... the only reason we don't see such thing in Karbala and other sites in Iraq is, not that the people of those cities have hospitality as their 2nd name but the macro situation of the country haven't allowed it...
I have been related to real-estate sector of this region and i know how desperate people of Karbala and other places are to sell and/or build hotels for their profits... in the end my friend, in todays world everything boils down to the profitability of the subject... and it relation with religion can be coincidence only...
I find it astonishing that some of the loudest complaints about the changes in Makkah are coming from those who have not been there recently.
Alhumdulillah I went to Makkah less than 2 months ago, and I can tell you, that when you are inside the Masjid al-Ḥarām, even when you are on the top floor.... you barely notice the tall buildings and construction around you. It all pales into insignificance compared to the awe, peace, and faith you feel from being at the Kaabah.
You only really notice the buildings when you are leaving the masjid.
In Research Triangle Park (NC, USA) they don't allow buildings to be taller than the trees, I am sure there are more areas like that in other parts of US and rest of the world, some for nature preservation and some for other reasons. Here we have huge huge buildings surrounding Kaaba. As pointed out by other guppies, they could've simply built tall buildings just outside Mecca and connect using the trains/trams even if it was for comfort and 'quick access' to haram. They can easily demolish mountains around Kaaba (if any left) to create more space. Whether you can see/feel these buildings from inside Kaaba is not much importance.
As pointed out by other guppies, they could've simply built tall buildings just outside Mecca and connect using the trains/trams even if it was for comfort and 'quick access' to haram
With the crowd that is there during hajj, trams and trains would be neither quick nor comfortable.
The huge crowd is not going to stay in these 5-star hotels, so these skyscrapers are not going to help common hajis anyways.
But common hajis would benefit from a tram/train that takes them to and from the Haram to closer to their hotels in the outskirts. And because the traffic by the haram becomes impossible, hajos living in the outer suburbs like Azzizya would flock to a transit terminal by 5-star hotels to use those for the final journey to the Haram.... causing a queue and a backlog.
But common hajis would benefit from a tram/train that takes them to and from the Haram to closer to their hotels in the outskirts. And because the traffic by the haram becomes impossible, hajos living in the outer suburbs like Azzizya would flock to a transit terminal by 5-star hotels to use those for the final journey to the Haram.... causing a queue and a backlog.
If you are so concerned for the 5-star hajis then dedicate one 'tram' for them just like they have so far dedicated the local train for Saudis only
During Hajj these accommodations are not important as during Hajj hajis are constantly moving from one ritual to another. Minaa is the main stay during Haj and Hajjis come from Minaa to the Haram every night or when ever they can. Their next departure is Arafat for one day stay and than move forward to muzdalifa for night and continue their stay at Minaa ( One full circle completed. On the last day they arrive back to Mecca to perform Tawaf-ul-wida which is the last ritual and most hajjis go back to their accomodations in Minaa or stay in mecca.
Mojority of the Hajjis depart for Medina for their 'Salat alarbaeen' for 40 days if they can.
The point is : These high rise accommodations are off-season Umrah Traffic, pilgrimages, visitors on other important days of Islamic Calendars, Not only Hajj
These buildings and accomodations are least for Hajjis but other Pilgrims.
They are not very expensive during the off seasons but the comfort they offer is very good and restaurants and other facilities.
Once you get the hang of it you can use these facilities to your advantage. Just finish a cheaper 'Mualm' git his accomodtion and afterward go look for own place to sleep and rest but ,,Do not exit Minaa boundry otherwise your Hajj would be void and nullified
In Research Triangle Park (NC, USA) they don't allow buildings to be taller than the trees, I am sure there are more areas like that in other parts of US and rest of the world, some for nature preservation and some for other reasons. Here we have huge huge buildings surrounding Kaaba. As pointed out by other guppies, they could've simply built tall buildings just outside Mecca and connect using the trains/trams even if it was for comfort and 'quick access' to haram. They can easily demolish mountains around Kaaba (if any left) to create more space. Whether you can see/feel these buildings from inside Kaaba is not much importance.
Bhai sahab, the respect of Kaaba is not in it's height.
sure, but someone is trying to get attention by the size.