Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
Yes it was. People like Osama entered Afghanistan in Soviet days.
Besides, the point of this thread is Talibanic terrorism before 2004, which Imran refutes. And this is why I said this:
There were several sectarian attacks before 2004, with training and blessings provided by Taliban in Afghanistan. This was terrorism by Taliban BEFORE the US invaded their mufsid government.
You do realize the Taliban were created in 1994 and even then did not consist of the original 7 mujahid commanders until 1996/1997 right? So how did OBL have relations with the Taliban before they existed?
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
I don't why you insist on this non-issue. Taliban did not come out of thin air. Their hateful un Islamic ideology existed before 1994. These people were only united and given the name of Taliban in 1994 by ISI in order to wage a successful fasaad in Afghanistan.
Osama and his fellows were present in Afgh since Soviet times. And they were continued to be given shelter when Taliban formally came into existence.
Again, point is not about relationship between Taliban and Qaeda. Rather it is Imran's claim that there was no terrorism/suicide bombing before 2004. And that Taliban's fasaad in Pak is only the reaction to US invasion of Afghanistan.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
Actually no they weren't. Why are you being stubborn about in correct information? Seriously all the leading experts in this field state that the Al Qaeda Taliban link was created after Al Qaeda left Sudan in 1998.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
TTP and Taliban Afghanistan are very much the same people. This distinction is only created by some people because people in Pak have first hand knowledge of fasaad by Pakistani Taliban. Otherwise all of them have the same fasadi origin.
The difference is Taliban had much support of ISI where as TTP doesn't .... may be foreign support.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
Actually no they weren't. Why are you being stubborn about in correct information? Seriously all the leading experts in this field state that the Al Qaeda Taliban link was created after Al Qaeda left Sudan in 1998.
You should know where khoji is coming from. For him all sunni militant organisations are the same regardless of their ideology, political stance and the cause they are fighting for and all should be dealt with militarily, even though they might have totally different objectives. Now that's not what others think. There is a clear distinction between sectarian outfits, Taliban and Alqaeda, which even the americans recognize.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
^ Please don't put words in my mouth. They are not sunni organizations at all. It's obvious by seeing that they have attacked anyone who has disagreed with them regardless of their affiliation. Some of them even consider even people wanting democracy to be kafir.
I personally consider them new-kharijiites. And kharijis were neither sunni nor shia.
About distinction between sectarian outfits, Taliban, and Qaeda. The only distinction is their immediate goals but the ideology and methods they use are very much the same. This is why they cooperate with each other whenever possible.
Lastly, it is not important where we are "coming from". What's important is facts. No one should twist the facts based on where they are "coming from". This is a lesson for Imran and his supporters who continue to believe in the fantasy that there was no terrorism before Pakistan actively started pursuing them.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
The difference is Taliban had much support of ISI where as TTP doesn't .... may be foreign support.
And you think this difference is enough?!
Of course there would be SOME differences. But these differences do not matter when we see that they follow similar ideologies, beliefs and methods of fasaad.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan’s Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
From the original article:
“**Imran Khan is also playing fast and loose with the truth when he blames President Zardari for the way the war on terror is conducted by Pakistan. Everyone knows that the Pakistani generals are running the country’s foreign policy. The government led by Mr Zardari’s party can be questioned for giving in to the establishment’s pressure by surrendering its authority and responsibility regarding foreign policy but to blame it for anything wrong with the foreign policy, including the war on terror, is misleading. **”
Imran blames PPP government (or Zardari) for the policies towards US in Afghanistan. This is either being ignorant or deliberately lying. Because Pakistan’s policies towards Afgh are not run by elected government but by army/ISI. This is a known fact.
But then Imran’s aim is not the facts but emotional incitement of people to his advantage.
Here is from today:
Govt has no control on Army/ISI ops: ministry
ISLAMABAD: Ministry of Defence in its written reply to the Supreme Court of Pakistan in the memogate scandal case has said that it has no control on the Army/ISI operations, Geo News reported.
Sources privy to the matter told Geo News that defence ministry in the rejoinder had confessed to the fact that it had no handle whatsoever on any of the operations conducted by Pakistan Army and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).
The government only takes care of administrative affairs of these two institutions, thus the ministry was not in a position to answer or explain anything on the behalf of Pakistan Army, they added quoting the rejoinder.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
You should know where khoji is coming from. For him all sunni militant organisations are the same regardless of their ideology, political stance and the cause they are fighting for and all should be dealt with militarily, even though they might have totally different objectives. Now that's not what others think. There is a clear distinction between sectarian outfits, Taliban and Alqaeda, which even the americans recognize.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but taliban are partly a sectarian outfit. I mean who can forget the fact that SSP / LeJ "militants" went and hid in afghanistan in the nineties. In fact, you can even find news clips from gunja era right before 1999 where the interior minister is asking for taliban to hand them over. I will let you guess (or do some digging of your own... ;) ) as to who was the interior minister at that time.
The only convergence in agenda and techniques that has happened post 9/11 is that parts of taliban has been purified into their true form i.e. the hanbli following wahabbis of al qaeda. Americans know it as well, since why couldn't they separate the taliban from the AQ completely? Now, don't tell me that it is like the old Russo-Afghan war, as you are supposedly in UN and you know first hand that america hasn't carpet bombed the way soviets did to their opposition in the eighties. Military action is only part of the solution, but the main thrust should be policing through state, local (police, levies) and federal forces like FC (frontier policing and the borders). Imran khan is a khota on many issues, but he gets it as he said that police needs to be decentralized and empowered like it is in the US. I also think it is time we own part of the drone program as well.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
^ TTP=Taliban. Yes. You should also add people like SSP, LJ, LeT, JuD in this list too. They are all the same khariji elements with different immediate goals.
ISI=Pak army is not the part of this evil anymore. Even though they sometime like to find allies among them for their own purposes. Like army is Musharraf's time used to distinguish between good Pakistan Taliban and bad foreigners supported by them.
People who create distinction between Pakistani and Afghani Taliban are those who want to save the faces of Afghani brand of Taliban, after Pakistani people got first hand experience of Talibanic kharijism.
Re: Deconstructing Imran Khan's Taliban narrative - Farhat Taj
^ Please don't put words in my mouth. They are not sunni organizations at all. It's obvious by seeing that they have attacked anyone who has disagreed with them regardless of their affiliation. Some of them even consider even people wanting democracy to be kafir.
I personally consider them new-kharijiites. And kharijis were neither sunni nor shia.
About distinction between sectarian outfits, Taliban, and Qaeda. The only distinction is their immediate goals but the ideology and methods they use are very much the same. This is why they cooperate with each other whenever possible.
Lastly, it is not important where we are "coming from". What's important is facts. No one should twist the facts based on where they are "coming from". This is a lesson for Imran and his supporters who continue to believe in the fantasy that there was no terrorism before Pakistan actively started pursuing them.
I can understand that its not politically acceptable to use the term sunni and come up with alternative terminology but anyhow, these militant organisations have different goals, some local others sectarian, others cross border and yet others international. The reality is that there is no leader in Pakistan political or military, who is willing or feels adequaltely armed and financed to take o n all these groups militarily. As long as they can keep Pakistani mainland and people from these groups, i am fine.
