So, what is the procedure for doing it via the eye? If one person sees it, then the other local maulvis/imams have to go with their call, or if you’re running a masjid, then you need to see it yourself?
In other words, on a grander scale, if a maulvi in New York sees the chand, but everyone in Atlanta does not, then does Atlanta go with New York’s call?
Likewise, why the heck is it that if one person sees it, the entire world somehow finds it difficult to follow?
Re: Deciding on the Moon
This may help:
Part 1](http://iieonline.org/chicagohilal/links/zaytuna_moonsighting1.pdf)
Re: Deciding on the Moon
PCG, I don't know about who should follow who as I belong to a group with a very well defined structure but I will point out that its scientifically possible that someone in India can see the moon while people in Europe cannot see it, i.e. it doesn't even come up to the horizon (not that there is something wrong with their eye). Just like solar and lunar eclipses are often only visible in part of the worlds, sometimes even part of the continent.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Right. So, since there is no pope...if someone in India sees it, and calls it, what prevents others from following it?
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Maybe the understanding of the lunar calender and the spirit that Eid like many other festivals is best enjoyed with local neighbors, even if religion is universal.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Right. So, since there is no pope...if someone in India sees it, and calls it, what prevents others from following it?
PCG, I gather you want to have a more predictable calendar for Ramzan?
My quick answer is. Forget it ***Mademoiselle* **!
There is no way in heck, we can all agree on unified calendar. So the best "available option" is to live with this unpredictability. Someone asks you, So when is Ramzan starting or ending?
Your answer should be, it could be tomorrow, or may be day after, may be day after after.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
You wanna know how I did it this time?
Okay, so get this. I was gonna do it Saturday with my mosque. Then I got to thinking. So many people are calling it on Friday. Someone among those people must have seen the chand, its not like they're pulling it out of their behind.
And WHY am I fasting one additional day?
I said , forget that crap, I'm doin' Eid TODAY.
How did I celebrate? I ate lunch :D
I'll just read the namaz tomorrow.
Rock on, world.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
^PCG,
why there is this mincing bite in your statement on everything you ever speak of? you could have done your own moon sighting. have faith.
best,
Dushwari
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Well that's my point. If someone else who runs a masjid has seen the moon, then why do I have to see my own moon?
I don't right? Then we why aren't we all following the first person who calls it?
Re: Deciding on the Moon
http://www.maniacmuslim.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=49
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Peace sister PyariCgudia
I’m not sure what the links are that people have already given, but hopefully this post will be a complete answer to your query. I have played a passive but key role in timetabling and the calendar system in a set of meetings that I have attended which have taken place in the UK.
The calendar system is lunar cycle based and it differs from Jewish lunar calendar with a subtle but very definite criterion. Here are the issues at hand:
First of all you ask one of the most important questions that are related to the day and age. As the calendar is a point on the last sermon.
“…O Men, the Unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With God the months are twelve in number. Four of them are sacred, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Sha`ban. Beware of the devil, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. …”
http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet_lastsermon.htm
We must ensure that we are not falling into this trap. It is the pressures of the Western way of living that is causing us to fault and compromise the regulations of the faith. Just to compare what is being done … read the last sermon on Wikipedia …
you will not find the section that speaks about the calendar … why?
In fact if you browse the whole internet you will find limited places quoting the full last sermon. For some people it seems that this essential information for our times was not worth delivering!
The major culprit is Saudi Arabia. That country is seen as an authority, however, Saudi scholars have issued a fatwa telling all countries not to follow them and to maintain local sightings. I think the reason for this fatwa is because of such tampering that is going on at the governmental level.
Claim: Saudi will always be the first to sight the moon … why?
The reason is obvious they don’t actually sight the moon, proof is that they have a calendar that is predetermined for the next 25 years. They obviously need it to plan their critical meetings with their US counterparts. Hence the insight of the prophet is proving to be true today.
So why do people follow other peoples sightings?
This is a correct but outdated methodology. The supporters of it say, that Muhammad (SAW) in one scenario asked a woman who claimed to have seen the new hilal, she said that she had, the only question he her asked was if she was a Muslim. They made a decision on one persons authority.
This is not adequate for today. Communication has been vastly improved. Global times have to be understood. People are not so clued up and many deceivers are about calling themselves Muslim and we don’t have the guidance of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) today.
To answer your question … If Australia do not see the moon, but Saudi do see it. The way time works on the globe would mean it is impossible to avoid two days of Eid. For when Saudi would notice the moon at Maghrib, the Australians would be coming near to their sunrise time of the following day of the week. They would have to wait until their own maghrib time much later.
Now Saudi you will notice will never be the last to declare the new month. Even if the first sighting should technically occur in Morroco, which is West of Saudi, it would mean that Saudi would have to wait until the next day to sight it themselves. However, this never happens.
This time around when Eid was declared for Friday. The first sighting was made strangely by Saudi, when the only place on the planet that could see the hilal with an optical aid was Argentina. If anyone did Eid for Friday the only country that had a valid reason would be Argentina. The rest of the world would have to wait until the sighting becomes manifest.
The Middle-East bandwaggons! Because Saudi announced a deceptive sighting, much of Middle-East countries announced Eid, but none confirmed a sighting. They were merely following Saudi’s decision based on the single source hadith criterion. Many countries are doing this based on false data, but do not question it, because of the convenience attached to it. They don’t need to alter the pre-printed pre-set calendars.
Brother ahmadjee made a point about India making a sighting and Europe not making the sighting … this is actually very rare. The only case where this is possible is when the southern most tip of India can sight the moon, because of the way the visible parabola forms across the inhabited land mass. The major reason for non-sighting is poor weather conditions.
The general rule is that countries to the East of another location that have sighting the moon ensures that countries West of them will see it too. Countires either increasingly north-West or south-west of a location that has seen the moon have increasingly lower chances to sight the moon.
Read up on the Yallop’s criteria.
All is not at loss … there is a solution to this problem. I’ll post later inshaAllah for now here’s enough for people to mull over.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
now i understand you better. & if i did then ths is what i can offer. u are right but it will take having faith and trust, conidence and credibility for that caller of the first sighting of the moon. you make a very meaningful community spirit-driven point.
best,
Dushwari
Well that's my point. If someone else who runs a masjid has seen the moon, then why do I have to see my own moon?
I don't right? Then we why aren't we all following the first person who calls it?
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Well that's my point. If someone else who runs a masjid has seen the moon, then why do I have to see my own moon?
I don't right? Then we why aren't we all following the first person who calls it?
Has nothinng to do with Imam or common person
If the weather is clear and visibilty is great, a good number of claims should come in (20-25 at least)
If the wetaher is not so good, fewer claims ar good enough
They can be from any muslim, does not need to be imam or maulvi
Re: Deciding on the Moon
NASA.
is all you need. not some bearded guy atop a roof in a city whose sky is polluted anyway to see anything.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Peace All
We can't follow the first person who calls the sighting of the moon, without questioning the validity. This is my point entirely. It is not a matter about trust either. How can you trust someone who has announced something that is scientifically impossible?
Following people purely on trust is fanaticism or foolishness it is not what Islam requires from us.
Since science has become increasingly more distant from the Islamic teachings the knowledge of such things has become stunted in the religious circles.
You will notice that all first sightings come from Saudi, at times when scientifically no one one should see the moon. From an experts point of view that has an odour and should be looked into.
NASA and Greenwich are indeed the authorities in the current day. However, with more statistical research things can become more accurate. We are already to an accuracy of within a couple of minutes regarding moon phase angle sightings and within seconds for solar positions.
Again people cannot perform Eid on the same day throughout the globe it is a phsyical impossibility, this is because when it is Maghrib for one country in Europe it is approaching sunrise for people in Australia of the following day.
I have a class of Muslim students and part of their syllabus I have set them is to learn the science of timetabling and calendar determination for Islamic purposes.
Please read up on the equations provided by Dr. Monzur Ahmed together with his limitations on them. He has made a few applets one called MoonCalc and there are others also.
These are preset with the Yallop's criterion for moon crescent sighting, which is based on angle of declination of the sun and the angular distance between the sun and the moon at the point of sunset. The latitude of the observer location are all factors which affect the sighting. The apogee and perigee of the moon determines whether the parabola will form over the central regions across the Earth, the southern or northern hemispheres. It is more or a less a precise science, but this methodology has not found it's way and accepted with the people in charge in Saudi yet.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
If you are on moon (like astronaut), how do you know if the next day is Eid? Because you are seeing moon all the time.
Is it haram to visit moon in ramzan.
OOPS. sorry for posting this question a 300 years earlier.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
If you are on moon (like astronaut), how do you know if the next day is Eid? Because you are seeing moon all the time.
Is it haram to visit moon in ramzan.
OOPS. sorry for posting this question a 300 years earlier.
Peace Robert
It is good that you have realised that the question is not relevant, but may be so in 300 years.
There is always a way out in fiqh that is why Islam has come to us. Perhaps, in those days if people are living on the moon, they would be made to calculate their months rather than view the moon, however, there may be a possibility to look for the Earth crescent instead of the moon one, a more fundamental problem would be which direction would the moon dwellers pray, the obvious answer to this is towards the Earth, but that will not be adequate because the Earth will keep moving, a way out answer could be that another Qiblah for the moon be built another House of God on the moon towards which all moon dwellers would pray.
You see it is not the phsyical aspect of the ritual that is important it is the spirit behind the action. All of these answers are hypothetical based on a hypothetical question I'm no scholar and my answers should not be taken as scholarly however you are indeed expecting such replies if that is your questions are not seen as inanities or taunts.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
Br. Psyah you could have a lot of people jumping up and down once they read this emboldened sentence. The first ones would be those who abstain from ritual prayer given that they still fear God in their intentions and spirit but then how does the physical ritual hold water here.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
There is a concept of "matla" in Islam... which, in simple terms, basically means what areas should join together and celebrate based on moon-sighting in any part of matla. For example, technically the entire Pakistan is one matla, so if moon is sighted in Karachi, folks in Lahore will also celebrate Eid.
US is considered matla, and if moon is sighted in San Diego, it will also mean Eid in New York.
However, recently ISNA is pushing for a fixed calendar, that takes out the element of moon sighting. Based on calculations, an Islamic calendar for the next 5 years is already published. Because it is easy to plan for events when the dates are certain, many masjids and Islmaic centers in the US are now following this ISNA-sponsored fixed calendar.
There is another school of thought, that says that we are one ummah, and if moon is sighted any where in the world, and that information is verified and transmitted in a timely manner (with internet and communication technologies so advanced now), then muslims all over the world should follow that as a common calendar for the entire world.
Re: Deciding on the Moon
No organization gets the scholars to the table. They often ignore the scholars. Scholars are against ISNA and yet ISNA goes ahead with their plans. Knowledge is being taken away from this earth really fast... :(