Mahiwal,
First off let me apologize to you.
Whew - i am glad you’re not a woman
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Second off - you wrote :
Growing a beard isn’t what the Prophet(PBUH) did, but also something he ordered all muslims to do.
For purposes of englightenment - can you post up the source of information which supports this statement? Whether it be Quranic ayah, hadith, a
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/dicsomaulvi.gif
fatwa, etc?
questionable ahadiths have been sorted out and marked as such, and the sorting hasn't been done according to the whims and desires of people but by those who are the Scholars of the Ummah, and who have used a strict science to do this to leave no room for doubts.
I'm sure the Scholars of the Ummah have done a great job in sorting out hadith thus far.
However, what makes you say that they've done the job perfectly, without any cultural bias?
Did you somehow read their minds?
I'm not saying that you ought to discard every hadith you come across,mind you. I'm saying one ought to seek the answers for themselves and not be afraid of questioning. Who knows, a regular Joe may come across something, as the author of the article I posted above did, that perhaps no one else has in the Past, or perhaps the cultural bias of these scholars was a factor in a particular scholar supporting somewhere a particular hadith when he/she knew very well it to be unauthentic.
It seems to boil down in one thing: how much trust to you have in scholars that are most likely, now dead, and also perhaps from a culture which is biased against women.
I'm not discounting the scientific method in which hadith are evaluated for authenticity. Although I do argue that this system was , again, created entirely by man, and is thus subject to some error.
Every scientific process created by Man is subject to error.
I'm taking into account, for the main part, a cultural bias that has existed for a long time, and of which I've even provided an article in which this cultural bias is used to discount certain hadith which are considered authentic today.
I hope you were nice enough to read the article, as I took trouble to post it up and verify its claims.
Unlike some people.
[quote]
One translation I have for this verse is
26.196 Without doubt it is (announced) in the revealed Books of former peoples.
The other translation is:
26.196 And most surely the same is in the scriptures of the ancients.
How do you know for sure that Allah SWT is talking about "hadiths" books here?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: Salaams to all
Dear Changez_like,
You see when we read scriptures we need to contemplate and the miracle of revealed scriptures is that the same ayah can give many meanings when read at different times of contemplation but in this case it is simple.
As you know Islam has been present from day one of man’s life on this planet, so immaterial of beliefs, people and their traditions, they are technically people of the Book, but Allah (swt) does not consider them people of the book because they have deviated and destroyed their revealed scriptures and turned them into traditions which are basically hadiths
Thus these former people, who are not the people of the book are following hadiths mixed with revelations and in them are found mentioned the coming of the Prophet (pbuh)
Which if you looked at the threads where I talk about Hindu referring to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , you will find the verses for such narrations.
[quote]
I thought it was you who FIRST said that hadith existed from day man was born , now you are saying:
[/quote]
Ibrahim says hmm, this is funny, what I am referring to is, about the earlier prophets when I say the day we are born, meaning the first prophet being Adam (as) on this planet, his sayings were also used by his children . The point being we human beings follow our respective father/teachers and hence what they say are called hadiths when related to others in essence.
[quote]
What is ur final word/definition about "hadith"? In my opinion, hadith may be a general word in lots of meaning as you mentioned, but the one a Muslim refers to is about Prophet Mohammed PBUH's narrations, events, discussions etc.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: exactly! because it is an Arabic word used to refer to the Final prophets sayings by Muslims but we must bear in mind all prophets were Muslims and if we are talk about their sayings we are in fact talking about hadiths.
I recall I made this in bold, I hope it is acceptable for you.
[quote]
What are hadiths?
** Hadiths are sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) NOT STORIES **
The obvious difference being , these matters are considered instructions and guidelines from the Prophet (pbuh) for Muslims, meaning they are auxiliary details that form part of revelation. Without them one may find themselves conjecturing, only with them , one can be rightly guided.
[/quote]
[quote]
Would you mind providing any narration or some sorta proof that hadith collection (in part or complete) DID exist during Prophet Mohammed PBUH's lifetime? And when and who destroyed the other collections after Imam Bukhari (ra) and others coded them in a book form? I'd appreciate that.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says such information like the existence of hadeeth specialists can be derived from the biography of companions , search for Abu Hurayrah , I posted it on this board some time back, as for records of who destroyed what, you need to use your common sense.
You see, even today people compile information that exists in archives as well information’s from various sources, which eventually gets lost or destroyed in time. > such authors may or may not indicate where they get their info from but will provide the origin of their source by mentioning who said it, which is acceptable to most of us.
Thus the hadiths have this source , every hadith has it, hence they is no need for the compiler to convey where or how he came to have access to such info. So I would have no need to find the original piece of writing where it was first written as I have trust in the compiler and most of all in Allah (swt)
This is same like the compilation of the Qur’an, it was written in various materials as the revelations were received , I do not need to go and look at the rock or bone to know that it is correct because I have faith in Allah (swt) .
Hope that helps
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** to live in the present is wisdom to live for the present is folly **
[quote]
Ibrahim, I would like to know your opinion about this matter. I’ve told mine quite a few times and you’ve only attacked that without telling us clearly what you think about this matter. Can you please state your opinion about Hadith etc.?
I get the feeling that if it was upto you, the whole world would be transformed into a Taliban-like community!
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: NeScio, why is it that you are unable e to respond to my earlier questions? Is there a need for you to deceive others by evading them? As for you new questions which means you will remain dishonest, kindly scroll above and read my post to yourself, to filhaal and changez like
BTW back biting the taliban will not help you from your follies.
be a good human being and try to answer questions before aking more!
regards
ibrahim
9:77 ** So He hath put as a consequence hypocrisy into their hearts (to last) till the day whereon they shall meet Him: because they broke their covenant with Allah and because they lied (again and again)**
[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
[quote]
You can keep your rod to yourself. This statement of yours shows how little you know of Islam. Any form of force or harshness is not permitted. So take your rod and go off on your own path with it.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: don’t be silly, and it seem you have little shame to acknowledge that you are a liar and if you think, lying is not a sin
Think again as to the punishment you will receive for it in this world itself
9: 77 ** So He hath put as a consequence hypocrisy into their hearts (to last)** till the day whereon they shall meet Him: because they broke their covenant with Allah ** and because they lied (again and again)**
Ibrahim says see, Allah (swt) explained why some people have your nature
[quote]
Furthermore, the article I posted up has everything to do with this thread. In your own ignorance, and perhaps fear that your beautiful walls you've erected will come falling down, you dont even have the respect to read an article someone has put up? If you haven't read it, then how do you know its irrelevant?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: see how little fuctioning brains you have? It was YOU who said that let me quote
[quote]
The article I was referring to - Please read. ** The bold statements are my own words. **
Are there more women than men in hell?
** by Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood**
[/quote]
Hence I only need to read ** your words in bold** to know what you were trying to imply , I do not need to read what others had to say since those people are not present on this board for any kind of discussion on based on their writings, get it??
[quote]
then I really dont feel the need to answer any of your queries. You dont give me respect, yet you expect me to respect YOU?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says what a silly statement! But for a liar, I guess that is the only way out and can be no way out except this.
BTW the discussion was based on what you wrote on this thread , not on what others wrote any where else on this planet, talking about others behind their back is back biting, only the ignorant and arrogant like you do it. But people like me know the difference and we only work on what you said not what others wrote, that are not present on this board.
Unless you are lying about who wrote that article too?
[quote]
Shameful.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: disgusting to know I have such sisters too.
Was salaam
Ibrahim
16: 92 ** And be not like a woman who breaks into untwisted strands the yarn which she has spun after it has become strong. ** Nor take your oaths to practice deception between yourselves lest one party should be more numerous than another: for Allah will test you by this; ** and on the Day of Judgment He will certainly make clear to you (the truth of) that wherein ye disagree.**