Day/Night Farces turn the World Cup into a Lottery

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41

Guys, I didn't really want to address this today but the fact is, everybody is worried about playing the semis under lights, The Aussies, the English, the Indians, the Pakistanis etc. The situation is going to be reviewed according to Ali Bacher. I don't need to say anything more.

** My words from the start have been vindicated. I don't need to continue this discussion, but the discussion will rumble on regardless. I wonder why?**

AQ, you want me to quote you the Indian captain on this issue? Maybe he's got a problem as well ;)

I know I certainly have.

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by andha_qanoon: *
Well Said UMAIR and PEOPLECHAMP..... :)

Now how can opponent of D/N match justify 222 runs scored by Windies . they were just badluck not to win...
Any comments Xtreme??

If batsmen apply themselves they can win matches on these wickets also... I know conditions are little favourable for bowlers but not as favourable to be 80/9 or 107/8
[/QUOTE]

AQ apart from Vass, no Lankan seamers move the ball. Fernando relies on pace, Gunaratne relies on channel. And Windies were clearly strgulling, 228 wasnt a good oneday score with SL line up but every commentator was aying 220 under lights n SA conditions hould be more then enough. And Sri lankans bowled30 overs of spin.

43

The Sri Lankan captain was PRAYING that they won the toss according to the tv commentators. I wonder why? AQ do you honestly think they would have relished facing the Windies bowling attack under lights?

Would Sarwan * a great player in the making* have been knocked unconscious by a ball from some second-rate Sri Lankan medium pacer?

Come on guys be honest with yourselves. Follow the lead of your captain, and my hats off to him for telling it like it is.

44

I guess Mr X isn’t the only one critical of Day night matches.

ICC must review Cup day-nighters - Woolmer
Reuters - 28 February 2003

JOHANNESBURG, Feb 28 (Reuters) - Former South Africa coach Bob Woolmer has joined the debate about World Cup day-night matches, saying cricket’s chiefs should review whether to continue staging them.

“It would seem, judging by the few games that have been played under lights, that the bias is too much weighted towards the side batting first, at least at the SA (South African) venues,” he wrote in Friday’s Business Day newspaper.

“The subject of day-night cricket during a World Cup will now have to be put firmly on the agenda for the next International Cricket Council (ICC) playing affairs committee.”

On Thursday, Pakistan captain Waqar Younis urged World Cup organisers to re-think plans of staging the second semi-final in Durban on March 20 as a day-night match, arguing that evening conditions helped bowlers swing and seam the ball.

He said teams winning the toss would always bat first to get the best of the conditions, adding: “I would say any team which wins the toss has won the match 75 percent (of the time) and that is grossly unfair.”

World Cup executive director Ali Bacher, however, said the statistics did not bear out that opinion and added that wind changes could affect whether the ball swung.

At some grounds, evening dew can work against sides bowling second by making it hard to grip the ball.

45

Here is another cricketing great critical of d/n matches.
Here is what Imran Khan had to say

Lights cause loaded games
Imran Khan - 28 February 2003

The team batting first in this World Cup have a huge, indeed almost unfair, advantage, judging by two day-night matches - England’s success against Pakistan and India’s win over England.

Conditions under lights not only favour considerable movement in the air but also extra pace and bounce off the wicket. The difference in the standard of bowling of Caddick and Anderson against Pakistan under lights as compared to their standard against India in the afternoon was enormous. Neither seam-bowler was able to get movement in the air or off the wicket, especially Anderson.

In the England-India game it was the turn of Javagal Srinath, Zaheer Khan and Ashish Nehra to be simply unplayable under lights at Durban. The bat was consistently beaten, especially by Srinath and, barring Andrew Flintoff, who used his height to cope with the extra bounce, no England batsman had even the slightest air of permanence at the crease.

This eagerly awaited contest petered out into a boring one-sided match, just like the England-Pakistan one did the other night in Cape Town. England never even vaguely threatened India’s 250.

The teams in the competition hoping to get to the last four must be praying that they do not play their semi-final under lights. Losing the toss could sink even the formidable Australians. So is it fair that the toss should determine the outcome of such crucial matches as a World Cup semi-final?

Should not all captains request the ICC to convert the rest of the day-night matches into day games? A few years ago a triangular one-day series was played in Pakistan under lights and was ruined when the toss virtually decided the match every time.

The demoralised Pakistani batsmen would feel some degree of consolation watching the demise of England against India. However, they will go into their Saturday match against India under more pressure than they would ever have experienced in their careers.

Not only do they stand to be knocked out of the competition if they lose, but they stand to be knocked out by India in a clash watched by the whole subcontinent of over a billion people, glued to their television sets. However, if they beat India, they could become one of the most dangerous teams in the World Cup. The win would give them the self-belief they have so obviously been lacking throughout the tournament.

However, to beat India the Pakistan captain will have to be far more daring and bold than he has been. He must take risks and get the promising fast bowler Mohammed Sami into the attack to get extra firepower to capitalise on the breakthroughs made by Wasim Akram and Shoaib Akhtar.

Australia were 86 for four and then got 311 and England were 118 for five and ended up with 245. Quality teams give few chances, and the ones who become champions have that killer instinct that never allows the opposition once they are down, to get back on their feet. They go for the jugular.

There is no better way to stem the flow of runs than by taking wickets. It is pointless making a wicket-taking bowler like Sami a spectator instead of the fourth attack bowler. The success of the great West Indies team of the late Seventies and most of the Eighties were their four wicket-taking fast bowlers.

Once the opposition lost a wicket or two they faced the prospect of a batting collapse, which materialised more often than not.

Pakistan’s main problem will be the low morale of their batsmen. None of their frontline batsmen exude the confidence of Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid or even Yuvraj Singh. Pakistan’s batting performance against Holland was not particularly convincing.

They will face an Indian attack that will be full of confidence after their performance against England. Nehra, especially, will be rearing to go. No matter how helpful the conditions, a bowler still has to bowl well to utilise them.

Six wickets in any conditions give a huge fillip to morale. However, I do feel that India are taking a big risk by playing without a fifth bowler. On a good batting pitch this weakness can be exploited, especially if Pakistan get off to a decent start.

Even though Pakistan have won against India more times than they have lost, their record against India in World Cup matches is abysmal, losing all three matches thus far. In all three Pakistan batted second, which should tell you something about their chasing ability.

Finally, I wonder if the English players and management have any regrets about not playing in Zimbabwe. After all, Australia had the same reservations, yet so focused were they that they did not want anything to get in their way.

If England do not make it to the Super Six it will be a great shame for the English supporters, because apart from Australia they look as good a team as any in the competition.

46

Waqar wants shift in venue of World Cup semis

By Tony Lawrence

JOHANNESBURG, Feb 27, 2003 (Reuters)

Waqar Younis

Waqar Younis has warned World Cup organisers that one of the tournament’s finalists is likely to be decided by the toss of a coin.

The Pakistan captain urged them to re-think their plans of staging the second World Cup semi-final as a day-night match.

Waqar told Reuters at Centurion on Thursday: "It has become obvious that, in the matches played under lights in this World Cup, teams winning the toss are getting an unfair advantage.

"I would say any team which wins the toss has won the match 75 percent (of the time) and that is grossly unfair.

Waqar, whose side surprisingly lost a day-night match to England in Cape Town on Saturday after losing the toss, added: "I think there is still time for the ICC (International Cricket Council) and the World Cup organisers to hold both semi-finals as day affairs.

“I would support any move from other teams to have the ICC reconsider having the second semi-final in Durban as a day affair.”

World Cup executive director Ali Bacher, however, contacted by phone by Reuters, said: “Look at the statistics and there’s no substance to these allegations.”

He added that changes in climate were part of the game. "That’s cricket. That’s the unpredictability and beauty of the game.

“The semi-final (in Durban on March 20) will be a day-night game as scheduled.”

Pakistan suffered a shock 112-run defeat in Group A when England won the toss at Newlands. After making 246, Nasser Hussain’s team skittled Pakistan for 134 as the ball began to swing under the evening lights.

It was England’s first win in six games against Pakistan.

SIMILAR FATE

England then suffered a similar fate in Durban on Wednesday against India.

Losing the toss, they restricted India to 250 for nine before being routed for 168, left-arm seamer Ashish Nehra taking six for 23, at the time the third-best bowling figures in World Cup history.

England captain Hussain complimented India on bowling well for their victory, but added: "It (the ball) just seemed to zip off the wicket.

“Obviously it was our turn to be on the other side of the equation.” India captain Saurav Ganguly had conceded: “The toss was very crucial.”

The second World Cup semi-final is due to be staged in Durban as a day-nighter.

Several other significant Group B games – Sri Lanka against West Indies in Cape Town on Friday and South Africa against Sri Lanka in Durban on Monday – are also day-night matches.

Those games could decide if the hosts South Africa reach the second round.

EVENING CONDITIONS

Commentators believe evening conditions and dew can offer bowlers more seam and swing movement.

At some grounds, however, too much dew can make it harder for bowlers to grip the ball later in the game, thus favouring sides batting second.

Changing winds can also affect conditions significantly, while the artificial light affects fielders trying to make catches as well as batsmen.

Waqar added: "The World Cup is held only once every four years and there should be no match where the toss decides there sult. Teams should have an equal chance of winning.

"I think the organisers and the ICC should have thought about this issue before finalising the itinerary.

"Batting second under lights is very difficult in South Africa. We were on the receiving end against England, who themselves were on the other side of the fence against India.

"The team bowling second under lights, for whatever reason, has got the advantage of the ball seaming and skidding around alot.

BIG FACTORS

"For the batsmen also, it gets difficult to spot the ball a sit loses its colour, which are big factors in deciding the out come of the game.

Bacher, however, said 15 day-night one-day internationals had been held in Durban, with eight wins for sides batting second.

He said changes in coastal winds in Cape Town and Durban could affect whether the ball moved or swung at any time of the day.

He also argued that day-nighters were highly popular with South Africans, who could attend the games after work with their children. "They are a better spectacle, " he said.

To date, four of the five World Cup day-night matches have been won by the side winning the toss. The tournament’s opening match, however, was a close-run affair, with West Indies beating South Africa by just three runs.

The debate was a hot topic on Thursday following India’s win over England on Wednesday.

Former South Africa bowler Steven Jack, speaking on a World Cup programme shown by South African satellite broadcaster Supersport, said: "There’s definitely an advantage to bat first. It’s always been like that.

Referring to the Group B day-nighters still to be played, he added: “These are massive games and you don’t want them to be decided on the toss of a coin.”

::: Reuters

47

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
AQ yaar, I just lost respect for you too. You mentioned Newlands specifically. I can show you your edited post if you like but I thought you were better than that.

Never mind.
[/QUOTE]

dair aye dursut aye ;)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
The Sri Lankan captain was PRAYING that they won the toss according to the tv commentators. I wonder why? AQ do you honestly think they would have relished facing the Windies bowling attack under lights?

Would Sarwan * a great player in the making* have been knocked unconscious by a ball from some second-rate Sri Lankan medium pacer?

Come on guys be honest with yourselves. Follow the lead of your captain, and my hats off to him for telling it like it is.
[/QUOTE]

Again you are doing tango here...I never said that D/N matches dont offer help to Seamer.What I am saying is that it doesnt help so much so that betting team would be 80/9 or 108/8. Thats the point. West Indian demonstrated today that good score can be made batting 2nd.They were just little unlucky to loose the match.Go and see the figure of other 2 Sri Lankan seamers.Those who say that DL have poor seamers.Do you honestly beleive Nehra is better than then.

If Pakistani and English batsmen have applied themselves then score would have been much difference.

So putting total blame on condition is like living in state of complete denial. The fact is that Nehra and Anderson exploited the condition well and Paki and English batsmen batted very poorly.

49

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by andha_qanoon: *

So putting total blame on condition is like living in state of complete denial. The fact is that Nehra and Anderson exploited the condition well and Paki and English batsmen batted very poorly.
[/QUOTE]

In that case can you please explain why if winning the toss isn't crucial in D/N matches why the authorities are considering switching the semis from being D/N'ers?

Just answer that one question please.

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *

In that case can you please explain why if winning the toss isn't crucial in D/N matches why the authorities are considering switching the semis from being D/N'ers?

Just answer that one question please.
[/QUOTE]

Who said its not crucial....... What I m saying its not as crucial as to call it a Lottery...?????

There are many other thing which are also crucial..like weather,chances of rain,bad decision by umpire,EarthQuake,Assassination of some big leader,bomb blast in stadium.

And now you answer me ... Why is it that out of last 6 matches at Kingsmead under light 4 or 5 were won by team batting 2nd???
What is the big difference now.
How come Windies scored 222 in 50 overs at the same place where Pak was 80/9.

51

AQ,

weather, chances of rain, etc are all out of our hands. playing D/N matches isn't That's exactly why the decision is being re-considered and why your whining about it looks bad.

[quote]
And now you answer me ... Why is it that out of last 6 matches at Kingsmead under light 4 or 5 were won by team batting 2nd???

[/quote]

Who were the teams?

52

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
AQ,

weather, chances of rain, etc are all out of our hands. playing D/N matches isn't That's exactly why the decision is being re-considered and why your whining about it looks bad.

Who were the teams?
[/QUOTE]

AUS,NZL,IND all playing against SA ....

care to explain?

53

Its not just about batting 2nd that makes it hard in south africa. But also the weather also makes the difference. At this time of the year, there is alot of moisture in the air, thus making the ball very hard to come on the bat,

When teams like Australia, New Zealand, and India chased and won in South Africa, the weather might have been different, thats why the timing of the WC was bad.

If it had been the summer, the batting under lights would have made it alot easier.

It really depends on what part of the world you play under lights, if you play in Sharjah at this time of the year, there is a dew factor, which makes the bowler's grip on the bowl very hard in the 2nd inning, thus giving advantage to the team batting 2nd.

54

Here is what the Indian captain had to say about the day night affair.

Ganguly Interview

55

Vaas was abnormaly swinging the ball into the left hand batsmen. After being presented with the MOM award Vaas was like " I got my swing back" maybe he forgot it was the condition that helped him ALOT.

However at first even I didnt agree with Mr XXX but then after seeing other d/n games I have to revert my opinion. The bowlers tend to get alot of swing and bounce under the lights . The reason WI were able to score 220 was thanks to their mighty batting lineup and the late "tullays" by Ramesh sarawan. He was just swinging the bat wildly.

I do belive D/N will benefit weaker teams as they might get an edge over the better teams by batting first.

56

losers whiners.

sri lanka beat australia in the 96 WC final @ lahore. SL batted second and only had 3 fallen wickets. D/N match.

57

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cHEeGUm: *
losers whiners.

sri lanka beat australia in the 96 WC final @ lahore. SL batted second and only had 3 fallen wickets. D/N match.
[/QUOTE]

SL had a big advantage because of Pakistan, I was there in the ground and all the Pakistani crowed gave support to the Lankans they were like playing in their backyard. Phir bhi na beat kartay tu lakh de lanat hoti.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *

Saturday isn't a D/N'er my friend :) Let's see what we are made of then on a level playing field.
[/QUOTE]

So Decision has been made !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any comments !!!!!!!!!!! ;)

59

Yeah. well played.

60

Tendulkar played well, he is the reason why India won. If the Pakistani bowlers were able to contain him earlier on, Pakistan would have won.