Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

a great article by someone “in the right mind mixed with moral courage to expose this moral charade being run by Ik and TUQ.Current Govt is corrupt is no doubt and fails at all levels but IK doles out morality from a container built on immorality so he is as bad as NS …IK and Qadri are appealing to extra-judicial powers (the army, the mod, etc.) to remove an elected government. The quality of governance may be in question, but the quality of those seeking to overthrow it by extra-judicial powers is below contempt”

Dangerous contradictions - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

                             [Dangerous contradictions](http://www.dawn.com/news/1133444/dangerous-contradictions)             By [Babar Sattar](http://www.dawn.com/authors/1416/)
         Published about 8 hours ago
       
     
   
                                                                             [TABLE="class: media media--left one-whole palm--one-whole"]
         

                     
           The writer is a lawyer.
         

       


                           YOU can call for reform of a dysfunctional  constitutional order. You can declare that the existing order doesn’t  work and needs to be replaced by a new one. But what are you thinking if  you seek to delegitimise an existing order, cast aspersions on its  institutions, inspire hate against its procedures and outcomes, and then  appeal to the same institutions to produce outcomes of your liking? PAT  wants a new constitutional order (even if it is coy about it). What  about the PTI? 

The latter’s conduct raises serious concerns about its commitment to our constitutional order. Its demands and tactics seem to be challenging foundational concepts of justice, otherwise settled by now: ‘innocent until proven guilty’; ‘right to trial by a neutral arbiter’; ‘no one to be a judge in own cause’; ‘legitimate means produce legitimate ends’; ‘rights and responsibilities go hand-in-hand’; ‘not to yell “fire” in a crowded theatre’; ‘your freedom ends where my nose begins’.
Article 225 states that no election can be called into question except by an election petition presented to the election tribunal. Imran Khan insinuates that election tribunals are either incapable or in Sharif’s control (except when they rule in PTI’s favour). Thus an ordinance must be brought in (without parliamentary debate) that somehow dances around Article 225 and enables a judicial commission to not only call into question election results in selected constituencies but also the overall electoral outcome across Pakistan.
This judicial commission should conduct a summary investigation, consider circumstantial evidence, not afford Article 10-A rights (fair trial and due process) to MNAs, and conclusively declare whether or not the entire electoral exercise in 2013 was a sham. But in doing so the commission is not to consider whether Imran Khan’s basic allegation (that Iftikhar Chaudhry, election commissioners, Returning Officers, Najam Sethi and Geo were all part of a grand conspiracy to deliver a fake mandate to Nawaz Sharif) is true and backed by evidence
So the PTI is demanding that the right of individual MNAs to represent their constituencies and the collective right of the PML-N to run the government be taken away without due process or a fair trial. The PTI is essentially saying that we, in view of the conclusive evidence we possess (not yet shared with a competent court) have concluded that we won the 2013 elections, which judgement must be accepted by all and sundry and thus the PML-N must now prove that it did not steal the PTI’s mandate to remain in power.
And what are the PTI’s means? The prime minister won’t resign just because the PTI is asking pertly. The khakis have clarified that they are not intervening. So is PTI relying on the Supreme Court for a face-saver? If the remedy lay with the apex court why did Imran Khan not file a petition instead of demanding intervention from atop his container? Should the court comply with his demand because there is a mob occupying Constitution Avenue, which might go rogue?
While one hears about the PTI’s rights, one seldom hears about its responsibilities. The PTI seems to have erroneously imagined that the right to protest includes the right to overthrow a government. The right to protest (which flows out of four fundamental liberties: to speak, associate, move and assemble) comes along with no guarantee or promise of immediate corrective action.
By protesting against an objectionable action or policy you record your disapproval while appealing to the conscience of the society and/or decision-makers. The demand is essentially moral in nature. If you seek to enforce such moral position through the use of force, you’re demanding right to violence under the garb of protest. Thus in Pakistan and in democracies across the world, the right to protest is subservient to public order. You have a right to assemble to protest. But if the assembly becomes illegal, the right extinguishes.
The priority accorded to public order means that the right to protest doesn’t come with the privilege to protest wherever and however you wish. Time, place and manner regulation of the right is standard practice across the world. Each Moharram, authorities work with organisers of marches to map out routes etc to ensure peace and public order, because under Article 16 of our Constitution the “right to assemble peacefully” is “subject to reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of public order”.
Have the PTI/PAT breached any laws while exercising their right to protest? Under Section 141 of the Pakistan Penal Code, for example, any assembly of five persons or more becomes unlawful if the common purpose is to overawe by use or show of force the government, legislature or public servants, to resist the execution of any law or lawful process, to commit mischief or trespass, or to obtain possession of property or deprive anyone of the enjoyment of right of way etc.
The PAT/PTI protesters violated the initial permission to protest by changing the venue and moving into the red zone. We saw PTV attacked, parliament’s fence broken, its premises trespassed, and police officers beaten up. We saw senior PTI leaders obstructing prison vans, IG police threatened by Imran Khan and the release of arrested PTI workers secured by force by the mighty Khan personally. We see vigilantes controlling the right of way on Constitution Avenue and even Supreme Court judges have to take a detour to reach the court.
Is this a lawful assembly?
Abuse of authority by the state has a long, abhorrent history. But the remedy lies in availing legal solutions and moving courts (which exist to uphold citizen rights and check the arbitrary exercise of state power) as opposed to relying on vigilantism. Can responsible leaders incite protesters to attack officials and then disown their responsibility for transforming an assembly into a mob?
State institutions and their legitimacy are hard to build but easy to destroy. The police uniforms being demonised represent state authority and not the Sharif government. Pakistan can’t expect progressive evolutionary change if its proclaimed agents of change aim to settle partisan scores by hacking at state institutions and state authority. Once delegitimised, the erosion of state authority will affect all uniforms and not just those worn by civilians.
The writer is a lawyer.
[EMAIL=“[email protected]”][email protected]
Twitter: @babar_sattar](https://twitter.com/Babar_Sattar)
Published in Dawn, September 22nd, 2014

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

Coming up shortly tonight.. from the streets of Islo…

"Oyee laaaawwwyaarrrrrrrrrr… Oye babar sattaaaar… Men tujhe ulta taang dunga… " :smokin:

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

and this is not from IK…but he says it all the time.. and we all know PTI is turning in Fascist party

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

^ Your signature is fascist.

Continue blaming PTI for everything but someday consider why people are resorting to extreme measures. Is it possible that someone else might be entitled to a little blame?

Call me Fascist, but if this was my son killed, I’d be willing to put all houses in the village on fire if that was the only way I could receive justice.

Landlord slits servant

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

^If the aggrieved will do it, its undertandable, but if its someone else burns the whole village in name of justice for the aggrieved and then makes peace with murderer, its not. Zahra Aapa ring a bell?

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

It was in reference to the article hanibal posted.

If you forget about PTI, IK and TuQ for a moment and then read it again, does it make sense? Does it not reflect what Pakistan is going through?

I would agree that PTI and TuQ are hypocrites and opportunists. But please put all the blame on them for a common man being frustrated at what the "entitled" are doing with the country.

True, you can blame the 'fascists' for inciting people to do unlawful things but not a word for those who actually brought people to the stage where they are even willing to listen to the people like TuQ?

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

I feel that talat's article is way over the top. While one may disagree with imran's politics but comparing him to hitler? Did hitler make universities and hospitals? Is the kpk government similar to nazi germany?

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

The injustice that exists in Pakistan sooner or later will result in a fascist uprisal, there's no way out. The politicians should change themselves before it's too late.

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

I know that I would not get answer, or wold get AYee-Bayee-Shayee in answer, anyhow, I have to mention something about constitution, and also have a question.

Constitution is not a sacred document, but it is a (fluid) document (rules) on how a country should be run. With time, changes in circumstances and requirements, constitution changes for the benefit of people (one should know and understand that a changeable document ... cannot be sacred). Further, there are two types of constitution:

A: An occupier can give constitution to occupied or slaved country. Such constitution is based on exploitation and persecution. Occupier could be anyone, could be king, could be dictator, or could have got into power through democracy and claims that he represents people. It is also possible that such constitution may not be against majority, but could be to exploit, persecute and abuse minority ... it would be same. Anyhow, nation (could be even minority) have all right to consider such constitution piece of garbage, fight against such constitution and also fight occupiers giving such constitution.

B: People's representatives or anyone who care and respect people, can also give a constitution, that is for the benefit of people and written to serve people and make life of people easy. Such constitution is to provide justice and prosperity to people. Each and every clause in such constitution keeps in mind 'ONLY and ONLY' interest of people (majority and minority alike). Such constitution accepts that people are not there for constitution but it is constitution that is there for people, to safeguard rights and life of people and benefit people.

Pakistani constitution has both elements A and B (what I mentioned above). A is good for people to safeguard and B is just a trash that people should not accept, respect, or care ... but should write and fight against it.

Question: Anyhow, forgetting what is A and B in Pakistani constitution, accepting the constitution as it is with all faults (B mentioned above), I would like to know 'what 'TUQ or Imran Khan' is demanding that is not constitutional?'

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

This is one of the ways to identify gutter press. In Britain we only had nasty right wing Tabloid paper Daily Mail that crossed all the limits and compared Alex Salmond with Hitler (so really no one is immune to such venomous propaganda) But nature works in mysterious ways, the mindless smear campaign by right wing nutters earned Alex Salmond even more support.

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

Let me google that for you

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

^^^ Sure. :)

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

We all believed in IK before.

But his actions has shown he is the same as the others:

  • PTI KP govt not caring about flood victims

  • Ignoring flood victims in Punjab

  • Speaking like a street thug when attacking democracy

  • Exposure as an ISI backed stooge

  • A team made up of the exact same politicans he speaks against - Sheikh Rashid, Ch. Shujaat, etc

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

awesome...i posted an article by a lawyer babar sattar who was discussing khan's politics logically exposing underlying contradictions but everyone jumped on talat's article which was not part of this original thread...............

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

acha jee?

shah sahib,we have been hearing about this inqliab, khoni inqilab, fascist uprisal for last 40 years or so... anything happened? as a matter of fact among all, shahbaz sharif has been warning about khoni inqilab.....allah o akbar!

well as much as i know of punjab history (the largest provicne in pakistan by far), punjab has never really shown any serious tendency towards any inqilab..always welcomed foreign invaders and gladly succumbed to it....from mughals to turks to ranjit singhs to my lord Englishmen, punjab was ready with yes sir attitude.

but forget the history, lanat bhejo history par...all the problems that we have in Pakistan, india has the same problems..corruption, lack of justice, horrible bureaucracy, crazy politicians, dynastic politics, load shedding, poverty, bhook....how come they are not talking about an inqilab, why the hell they show up to vote every 5 years, why in the world govts there get changed in Parliament and hey howcome investors and tourists still flooding their country?

hamay kaya problem hai kay every 6 months we need a new model?.....and we have tried so many of those models already..

yes we need to strengthen our institutions and as such we need electoral reforms and independent election commission but khan shaib changed his agenda....

PPP was thrown away in last elections and if PMLN continuous to govern the way it has been performing it will be thrown out as well. in the meantime IK needs to go baack to KPK and deliver there.....but naahieen, we need a new model, we need resignation, we need this we need that

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

^ do you think PMLN and PPP would go for independent organizations? Who are the biggest beneficiaries of the current system? PMLN on the one side gives the impression that they want to audit the results of the previous elections and then say that the elections were free and fair. Which of these statements should we believe? Is it a coincidence that ECPs results have been gutted in central model school? If the previous elections were free then what's the need to reform the system. Let them carry out the elections, PPP should win ten as it's their turn.

I agree with them that the elections were fair, my question is which elections in our history were rigged?

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

and that is precisely where PTI shd have focused....get electoral reforms, an independent election commission...when finally army chief intervened, he could have made zamin and from every press report it is clear that army was ready to be mediate that deal...a judicial commission was on board to investigate rigging. if rigging was proved new elections would take place...

But IK shook hands with TUQ, marched towards parliament, got stuck on resignation demand and what not...

sir jee, i said this many times..allah karay army kay under free and fair elections ho jayeen aik dafa....you know very well IK is still not going to come in power..then what? dhnadliee ho gayee again? this time he will give dharna outside GHQ

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

^ they won't get that. PMLN is a big beneficiary of the current system. For improving the system PMLN has first to acknowledge the flaws, when they believe that the system preformed well last time why would they change it now?

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

that is fine..either you are not reading my posts or you just choose to ignore...

where did i say PMLN would voluntary make changes? where did i say PMLN would give up on everything automatically

Imran had PMLN by throat, that was the biggest benefit of this dharna and what not...army was involved, COAS was talking to IK and nawaz....supreme court was involved...media was involved. That was the time to focus on developing a mechanism to get electoral reforms implemented....rigigng being investigated. and if in 90 days PMLN did not make any meaningful progress on electoral reforms Irmran had a golden chance to attack govt...much more credible narrative

what now..keep doing jalsas and asking for PM resignation? and electoral reforms?

anyway, we have made our point clear on this issue...happy monday

Re: Dangerous contradictions..Khan sahib!

The Game Imran is playing

23 HOURS AGO BY INAM KHAWAJA

**He should tell the truth to the people

**Shortly after the elections and even before Nawaz Sharif took oath as PM, the **Chinese Prime Minister Li Keqiang **came to Pakistan on a two-day visit on 22 May, 2013. He met President Asif Ali Zardari and the caretaker PM as required by the diplomatic protocol but had a long meeting with Nawaz Sharif. It may be noted that this was PM Li’s first foreign visit after becoming prime minister. Needless to mention that normally prime ministers do not make visits during interim setups. However, China recognised that the visit was necessary to have a one to one meeting with Nawaz Sharif.As an experienced leader with vision, Sharif recognised the important opportunity from discussions with Premier Li Keqiang in their meeting in May. The meeting gave a chance to the two to develop a rapport that put in motion a process which made it possible to meet again which culminated in a five-day visit to China by Premier Nawaz Sharif only a few weeks after taking over in early July 2013.

During this visit both sides identified areas of cooperation and signed agreements and MOUs, including the agreement to build the China-Gwadar economic corridor. These agreements envisaged an investment of about $13 billion over the next five years in coal power plants in Sindh and Punjab, hydroelectric projects in KP, economic zones every 200 miles along the economic corridor, fiber optic cable from China to Islamabad with connections to major cities, solar energy projects, the building of nuclear power plants in Punjab, and a railway connection from China to Gwadar deep sea port.After return from his landmark visit to China Nawaz gave orders to vitalise the economic corridor secretariat in Islamabad and instituted a cell in the prime minister’s office to monitor progress on the projects agreed with China.

The Chinese government shortly after the PM’s visit instituted work on the preparation of the feasibility of the China-Gwadar economic corridor consisting of a road and a railway line.It is envisaged that the China-Gwadar economic corridor will impact on the well being of about three billion people in China, South Asia and Central Asia.

It is expected to positively reduce transportation costs and time, open new trade and investment opportunities and provide new employment opportunities for people of the region.The visit by President Xi Jinping to Pakistan in mid September which was well known has been postponed due to the “sit-in” in Islamabad by Imran Khan and Tahirul Qadri. During this visit President Xi Jinping was to lay the foundation stones of some of the approved projects, witness the signing of the new agreements and take strategic partnership and economic cooperation to another level.It is strange that fifteen months after elections Imran has challenged their results by a sit-in, but why could not he wait another two months? Why could Imran not postpone it till October, after President Xi Jinping’s visit? Why the sit-ins were timed to coincide and overlap the planned visit of the Chinese President?

Mr Imran Khan and his erudite associates, particularly Messers Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Asad Omar, Dr Arif Alvi and Ms Shireen Mazari must come out and answer the above questions. The people of Pakistan want to know what game, if any, are they playing?It has been reported in the electronic media that Imran and Qadri met in a place on Curzon Street, Mayfair, London, to hatch the so called “London Plan”. One needs to know why the news of this meeting was kept under wraps.

People of Pakistan now want the truth. Imran who claims to be an honest person should come out in the open and tell the truth.We all very well know who is against the China-Gwader economic corridor and has publicly protested against it. Are they pulling the strings or is Imran not cognizant of the immense damage and loss to the country’s economy and image? If no one is pulling his strings then his wisdom and loyalty to Pakistan are certainly in question.