Yesterday was an incredibly sad day for me. My childhood best friend/neighbours dad died. He had been in prison for 5 years after entrapment by the police and only came out 5 months ago. A very sweet Uncle…and a sudden death made it all the worse. Anyways, the Dad was Pakistani but Aunty is gauri..and my friend and her sisters and brothers are mixed race//half cast. Uncle had brought them up in a pretty much western manner…and the only Pakistani influence was from my friend mingling with us and living in a Pakistani area.
There was such a clash of cultures yesterday. My friend not surprisingly and her family wanted to be left alone to grieve. But as you can imagine all Uncles Pakistani brothers, nephews, friends etc were over at their house for ‘afsos’. Now obviously they had to eat as they had travelled from a different country and Aunty and family are gaurafied so as if they were going to feed the five thousand.In the end Uncles bro decided to order food from a hotel but my mamoo volunteered to make everyone food instead. And then we served all the guests in our house.
So in short, all the guests were sat at our house and my friend and family had switched off the lights and drew the curtains at 9pm because they couldn’t handle dealing with all the guests.Because of all this rigmarole one neighbour whos diabetic dad had been running around serving tea to everyone all day stated that she believed that the disparity between the cultures is so huge that they should only stick to their own kind. What do you guys think?
Personally, I never quite understood why so many people have to come over immediately after someone's death. I mean, the family usually has enough to deal with. If guests come over, there is added pressure to serve them. Very few guests actually take the initiative to actually go into the kitchen and make something for the family who are suffering. Then again, there are those people who do care enough and make the effort to satisfy their own hunger/thirst needs without causing a fuss.
I disagree about sticking with your own culture. I also have relatives who are part European. They've been raised with both cultures and have been regularly exposed to our customs from a very early age. If parents are able to teach kids of mixed marriages the ways of both cultures (rather than favouring one culture over another), then I don't see any difficulties.
mehnaz these brothers had traveled from pakistan because they lost their brother..and u are asking why they have to come? plus they wanted to order the food themselves and its not like they were asking the family to cook for them
i dont get u sometimes
Generally when people come its not just for afsoos at least not when we go... When one of our very close friends dad died my mom stayed with the aunty and we took food as well and so did other people... its a time to let people know that there are others who care and to help out with things. I mean you dont really want to planning the funeral yourself and it always helps if friends are there to help out.
Of course its a little bit different when you dont know the people as in this case.
Sheraz, perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. However, you did an excellent job of putting unnecessary (and unsaid) words into my mouth.
I was talking about the concept of going for afsos in general, not about DD's specific reference. When I said that I don't understand why so many people come over after someone's death, I was talking about guests in general, particularly not-so-close friends .... not relatives who themselves are in mourning .... I was talking about these not-so-close people who come over immediately rather than giving the family a bit of space to grieve rather than overwhelming them more. I agree that it is important to show your support in such situations and if people are going over solely to provide emotional support and help take care of the household, then that is a good thing. However, I also believe that if you aren't so close to the family, then you should give your condolences, provide emotional support but also give the family space to grieve while letting them know that you are there for them.
I must say that once I was against the concept of many guest coming upon someone's death, but my opinion changed drastically after the death of my beloved uncle. I think when our culture people come for 'afsoos', then you feel that you are not alone, that someone is sharing your pain with you. I think being alone in such a situation might make the person in grief even more miserable and depressive. People come and consule you, talk to you and share their common stories that you feel not alone and I think this helps a lot to get over the death of that person and not to feel miserable and alone.
And why did that gori married the paki in the first place when she believes that the disparity between the two cultures is so great, did she realised this just right now after the death of her husband, I wonder if she ever said thanks to you guy for serving her guests and for all the work? Honestly I have seen better gora logs who don’t talk such culture crap, with people like her, it think she’s right, we’d better stick to our own kind.
yes mehnaz you really did not..but no problem :)
and saadia u are right..i experienced the same thing when i lost my grandparents here..the whole community got together in a hurry..ppl left their jobs early to come and console the family..i remember the namaz e janaza was in early afternoon and almost everyone was there too
saadia, when our own culture..afsoss..WHAT? We as humans, can provide comfort to a fellow human being no matter what color, race or ethnicity they are. We were made to do this...we're different, but we're the same. Wake up and smell the pakoray
i think it's not an isuue of culture clashes as much as it is an issue of where modern west european and american culture is headed...i'm not sure which culture the 'gori' belonged to, but i do feel that a Greek, Italian, Mexican, Spanish, Arab, Persian, Afghan, Chinese woman would not have acted this way...
i think it was pretty rude of the gori aunty to act this way. she wasnt the only one who lost a loved one. the family lost a brother, son, or uncle as well. i think it was pretty selfish for her to react this way.
Its appropriate to give the immediate family some room, time and space to overcome the shock before people flood in. If you feel that your presence is absolutely necessary to console and support the family then one should make a decent phone call and promise a visit at an appropriate time.
I have seen huge funerals with arrangements like a friggin wedding in Pakistan.. Its pure jahalat as far as I see it.
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*Originally posted by SaadiaB: *
I must say that once I was against the concept of many guest coming upon someone's death, but my opinion changed drastically after the death of my beloved uncle. I think when our culture people come for 'afsoos', then you feel that you are not alone, that someone is sharing your pain with you. I think being alone in such a situation might make the person in grief even more miserable and depressive. People come and consule you, talk to you and share their common stories that you feel not alone and I think this helps a lot to get over the death of that person and not to feel miserable and alone.
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yep you are right sadiaa , i also felt same way lakiN changed my mind right after my abu passed away , asse sitatution meiN you always need someone .
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*Originally posted by BoSS: *
Its appropriate to give the immediate family some room, time and space to overcome the shock before people flood in. If you feel that your presence is absolutely necessary to console and support the family then one should make a decent phone call and promise a visit at an appropriate time.
I have seen huge funerals with arrangements like a friggin wedding in Pakistan.. Its pure jahalat as far as I see it.
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That was the point I was trying to make ... very unsuccessfully.
When my nana died, I wanted my mother to have some room to breath and just grieve. She couldn't though with everyone flooding in. On top of that, there are always people who do expect to be served. Majority of people have enough sense to realise this isn't the time for chai and desserts. Unfortunately, we had one family come over for 'afsos' who opened the fridge, ransacked what was there for her spoiled rugrats running all over the place and then left the house in a mess ... with my mother having more stress to deal with.
I also agree with what was previously stated; a lot of eastern European and a few western European cultures' are very similar to ours (Greek, Italian, Spanish, Mexican) and deal with grief in a similar fashion to us Southeast Asians ....
i agree with Saadia baji and mehroo aapi DD...i think it is so important to have people around when you are going through a difficult time like that...there were some deaths among my relatives in the past and when i think of those times i dont know how it would have been without the support of everyone who came...
Heh, funny topic. Why the hell doesn't anyone come to read a few chapters of the Quran for the deceased. To the funerals i've been (keep in mind that I don't even know the people at times) no one picks up to recite and bless the deceased rather everyone is ready to eat. Why don't they help? Instead they come over to be fed, knowing the family just spent so much money on burrying the deceased and now this? Sheesh, have some compassion.
If you have nothing better to do then just pay your condolences to the family, eat what is there and be out for the family to have room to breathe. A gathering of people won't bring the dead back, let the family grieve in peace.
The close ones should stay ofcourse. The rest, off ya go.
^ Do you really believe desis attend funerals just for food and gossip? FYI, no one(atleast us desis) goes to funerals to be fed. We go there to recite Quran and give condolence to deceased’s family. We desis aren’t as jaahil and rude as you’re describing us to be! In many funerals in Pakistan neighbors are caring enough to help the deceased’s family to make arrangments for funeral and MANY even bring food for the family and guests staying at their place. We don’t just mess up the place and leave!
I could never understand the western concept of ‘grieving’ .. it’s like they want it all planned and neatly tucked away in it’s own little corner …between six to 8:00 but definitely no later than 8:30.. one has GOT to get some beauty sleep after such a hectic day…
desis i know have a culture of taking over the responsibility of cooking for the entire grieving family.. in fact desi families of their own decide who’s gonna do breakfast, lunch and dinner and cook at their place and then bring it over.. enough to feed the family AND those sharing their grief..
Burials are also never planned like over here people have already bought their plots and made funeral arrangements.. over there volunteering relatives or friends spend out their own pockets and run arond all day and make those arrangements for you..
yes.. it’s a different culture.. but not all is not that bad from where you come..
CA: No I dont' believe it. I've seen it here. I never said anyone is jahil or rude. In Pakistan its a similar story. I've witnessed funerals in pakistan how people congregate to help one another. Thats great. I've also seen the negative aspects which I don't like. Things have been messed up and people leave without a helping hand, you just don't know it cuz hardly anyone looks back to see what has become of the family after the procession has taken place.
In many funerals in Pakistan neighbors are caring enough to help the deceased’s family to make arrangments for funeral and MANY even bring food for the family and guests staying at their place. We don’t just mess up the place and leave!