Criticism and Rants.

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Okay, I know this is not the right time but I m not justified.

There is a rumor that within the army chaos and discomfort has begun against Mr. President and Ministers. According to the rumor (or if it is true, which can not be unlikely either) Army was fully capable of starting the rescue operations within few hours in the remote effected areas. But, the aid and mobilization was deliberately seized, pretending in front of the international media that the remote areas are really too remote to access. Mr. President and Mr. Prime Minister urged and emphasized on the financial aid on the first two days (Although the financial aid can wait few days but actual need was of teams, medical supplies, machinery, choppers and food etc). The initial amount of aids was raised.

I have a friend whos aunt lives near Balakot (I forgot the name of the village) when the quake occurred on 8th, his uncle went to Islamabad by air and rest probably by roads. He was in Muzaffarabad on the same day. If a civilian can get there from Karachi in the same day why cant the authorities?

Mr. Amitab Bachan (an Indian) canceled his birthday party after the quake, I personally know of an engagement ceremony being canceled here in the neighborhood, younger cousin’s friend’s birthday being canceled, all for the mournful time on the nation, while one of our Minister is in London getting his son married? Okay fine, I have nothing against someone getting married but atleast admit it why are you there, why do you need to say I m here to raise the funds?

Neither am I justified with the numbers of casualties and injured. There are more then 25000 soldiers working in the field to help and rescue, 45 international teams for search and rescue only. Dozens probably hundreds of individual medical teams, thousands of volunteers, dozens of NGO’s. So I guess the number of people who are trying to help should be around 50 thousand comfortably. But the Number of injured officials are reporting is around 60 thousands only (Lets add homeless peoples number that is around 2 lac) Still that makes around 1 man helping 4/5 men which shouldn’t be much problem? No? Then why does it seem that each man is probably trying to help hundreds and there are still people who needs help?

And this is not only what we can see on TV but friends who went to help as volunteers and a medical team there I m in contact with are reporting similar situations.

As someone said, it was an ‘Aafat’ for the people, but, ‘Rehmat’ for some. Okay Rant over. God Bless Pakistan.

:bravo:

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Re: Criticism and Rants.

thats what i was thinking…how did the geo/ary reporters get there the same day ? I was thinking about it that if geo reporters can get there why cant others?

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Not true.

PM Aziz was interviewed within a few hours of the quake and he said to CNN that Pakistan has a large army and cash reserves to take care of this. At that point, the full extent of damage was not clear and the PM made a point to that.

There is NO disharmony within the army ranks.

Maj. General Shaukat Sultan made a very a nice comment this morning that it's not the Army carrying the rescue and relief effort but we are helping the civilians who have been doing all the work.

Yeye kitnee galet baat heye
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Re: Criticism and Rants.

Furqi and Jony: A single person traveling to Muzafarabad is DIFFERENT than an army batalion with all the logistics and vehicles.

Happy Birthday Iraj
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Re: Criticism and Rants.

theres a difference between mobilisiing an army for relief operations and getting reporters through. none of the mainstream media in pakistan has accused the army of slacking, including the reporters that went there. today there was an interview with the UN officer coordinating efforts, and the cnn anchor tried to get him to blame the pak organizations for being slow, and he countered by saying the scale of the disaster was too high, and that all the roads were broken. he also said that this relief effort is one of the best conducted, given the difficulty of the terrain.

at this point, all these speculations will stay speculations, but if they catch wind, they will hinder in the efforts that are going through.

as for why the army couldnt be mobilized in time, most of the army infrastructure of agk has gone becausae of the earthquake too.

somin i would like to share .....
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Re: Criticism and Rants.

I don't know why some people are 'looking for faults' I talked to a friend of mine in Islamabad and he says that everybody is feeling so close to each other. Not too long ago the trust in Pakistanis for each other was reaching an all time low and most people thought that Pakistanis have reached the bottom of the barrel when it came to corruption and disregard for others. The way the nation has reacted to this catastrophe has made a lot of people change their mind...

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Re: Criticism and Rants.

I was listening to NPR (National Public Radio) yesterday and Michael Sullivan from Islamabad was asked by the NPR acnhor if people are blaming the govt? His reply was that contrary to popular belief people do realize the extent of the damage and even the opposition parties have come out trying to be a part of the solution rather creating more problem by finger pointing.

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Re: Criticism and Rants.

One thing you might want to consider is that right after it happened, it was easier for a few people to get to these places. But if you're trying to drive a line of trucks, and land helicopters, etc etc - it'll be hard to get them thru especially if the roads are broken.

For a few people to go there in a small party, where there aren't traffic jams (they're showing lines of trucks with supplies lined along mountain sides) - its not that hard. Because you can climb over the rubble. You can't get a friggin truck with supplies over heaps of rubble and masonry though. At least not easily.

There are way too many particular little details in disaster relief work, especially in mountainous areas.

However, I did notice that the President and PM both seemed to be unable to meet the camera's eyes on the first day. And do I trust this "president's fund"? I love mushy, but no, I do not trust the fund. You just don't know who is getting their grubby hands on that money.

...Eid Pictures...
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This is a stupid thread started by a bhoonsa bhara head.

Idiots!!!

Doc......arghhhh!
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Re: Criticism and Rants.

Very encouraging indeed. It is NOT the army carrying out the rescue :stuck_out_tongue:

Brig Ahsan who is the incharge in Muzafarabad gave a briefing with maps. The operation is divided in 4 categories, one is search and rescue. 42 Teams of Pak Army working.

:bravo:

Gupshup News - II
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Re: Criticism and Rants.

Mr. President has announced they will give the account reports of each day how much was spent, where and how.

But yes with money matters I will trust Private Organizations I trust and NGO’s. With Goods I will either trust Private Orgs/NGO I trust or middle to lower level of the Army.

:bravo:

Doc......arghhhh!
Doc......arghhhh!
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Re: Criticism and Rants.

Various reports indicate that it IS the army and Edhi who are leading the way and getting everybody organized. You guys need to keep in mind the terrain of the area, as well as the fact that a lot of soliders were dead the minute the earthquake was over.

I initially thought the same thing as you, if the BBC man can get in with his camera, why can't the army? Well then it later came out that the army WAS there but they had no supplies to handle the situation. What little they did have was gone very quickly. The devastation is simply too much for the army alone to handle. On top of this, you need to keep in mind that a lot of the roads simply aren't built to handle the kind of equipment and tractors that are needed to be brought into the areas badly affected.

They have shown quite a few soldiers and even a general who took a small break to bury their own little children before immediately getting back onto the field to help others.

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Incredible!

Doc......arghhhh!
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Thank U very much for the compliment. I m flattered.

Mahnaz i never said Army is not doing anything, Ofcourse IT IS ARMY leading & doing the best it can. All I m saying it was capable of starting it much earlier.

Exactly Alot of soldiers were dead too their families and Mr. President still didnt get the initial Idea how bad it was? while the whole country knew within half a day?

:bravo:

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Re: Criticism and Rants.

Jony, look at what also happened that day after the earthquake. Severe weather storms and mass panic. It was chaotic. Even we didn't know the extent of it despite 24/7 coverage on GEO/ARY. Given the situation, I truly think the government has done an excellent job. They will indeed learn from their mistakes for the future, I'm sure of it.

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there is a big difference bwteen avg person on the street knowing “its really bad and widespread” to.. what is teh damage, where is the most critical help needed, how much, how soon can we get there, what do we prioritize.

dont get me wrong, until 2 days ago I was getting rather ticked off that i did not see action,a nd while i still feel that there could have been soem small things done just to give ppl hope, I really think that the govt is doing its best.

with the entire civilian govt wiped out in affected cities in cases, lack of communication infrastructure, and issues with transportation it is bigger than you think. I have spoken to people on the ground and resources are strecthed.

It is not just an issue of resources, but right resources and right supplies, in a market where tents are sold out in all markets and military tents have been ordered to be distributed, and where surgical supplies and medications are being used up faster than at any rate ever in the history of the country. groups, have sprung into action to do what they can.

it is simply not something that the govt can handle on its own, period. the experts that are on the ground, pakistani locals, expats who have gone back to help, and foriegn experts, all of them have noted how critical this is and how what is being done is right.

Is there a chance that things could have been doner better and faster, possibly. However, fretting over that only ensures that what is happenign now gets slowed down and bogged down by analysis paralysis.

there is going to be political blame game, i know, i saw signs of it on some show on geo or ary last night where MNAs were complaining that an all party conference was not called, as if that is the right thing to do in the time of a crisis.

anyways..the type and scale of the disaster and the logistical problems with roads and weather made it very very tough. ppl and institutions responded in the best way that they could.

So what's with the Cows in the Banners?
So what's with the Cows in the Banners?
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Rumours are rumours. Mullah must be behind this.

The fact is that Pakistan Army never seen a disaster of this magnitude and they were not prepared for it. Also Pakistan's crises management team is not aware of process defination advancements around the world. Specially countries like Japan, France, Indonesia and Turkey have evolved the processes to streamline the relief efforts and quick response.

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Fradiye Unkle Agreed.

I spoke to number of soldiers and rangers in past 4 days who were or have served in the region of effected areas before, and most felt the rescue operations could have started earlier and that they were capable of it. (I m not saying it would have been as massive as now but some efforts could have made to save lives)

The communications means of Army ARE diffrent then the normal lines (if not full) still there was a good estimate of what sort of the disaster it was within half a day & then in 24 hours.

I understand soldiers at lower level probably feel that bcos of the ‘quami jazba’. The more senior and officer rank soldiers are bit reserve to talk about it, as if they dont want to comment, however one of the senior ranked officer too admitted Army there was desprate to go and help but was not authorized and asked to wait till further organized plans. (Backup & organized plans are most welcome but in the critical time was ignored)

Mr. President also admits it in the form of as ‘they were unaware of’ but there surely are doubts in peoples hearts.

:bravo:

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JOhny

on one hand there is analysis paralysis, bunch of ppl sitting around coming up with the perfect plan and taking so much time that the opportunity to help is gone

on the other hand is running first and askign questions later, what do we do, what is needed, where should we go.

with all due respect to soldiers and rangers, I would take the words of disaster relief experts on this.

Yes you can somehow get ppl there faster, but what would they do

the scale of impact is such wide that without help from private sector the military would not be able to do all of it anyways. so you can have a few rangroot on the ground with picks and axes removing debris or burying the deceased, but thenumber of doctors that is needed can not be fulfilled by military alone.

in the end, the question is if ppl got there quickly but without the right coordination and planning, how much would they be able to do.

you are either going to have inefficiency initially due to ramp up of a calculated deployment rather than a rush deployment, or you were going to face issues it later if in the case of a rush deployment there was no coordination. pick your poison

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there is another element to this..in Pakistans political system..and more so under a military dictator you have a system which is totally dependant on the man at the top..this slows the speed at which things are done..at the same time even opposition leaders like Imran Khan have said in interviews that even a more efficient government would be overwhelmed because of the scale of the disaster.

Unfortunately whatever the truth..locals on the ground are increasingly angry and bitter at whats happened..