Re: Criticism and Rants.
I’d like to add..despite the fact that the other side of the LOC suffered comparatively less damage..the situation is equally bad in certain areas:Time Magazine
Re: Criticism and Rants.
Fraudia how would u feel if u were a soldier, it was ur town, ur friends & family was effected. U know u will be able to help atleast few if u r allowed to go in near by village to help those who r in debris and u were asked to wait? Even with the bare hands & no tools?
Most deaths occured in the first 48 hours, i m only saying if just 200 men were allowed to leave the stations and one man could have saved one life it was still 200 lives.
TWO HUNDRED HUMAN LIVES.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
johnny how would you feel if you were rushed into a place and you did not have the right equipment, did not have the right support, did not know what was needed, would you feel useless.
how would you feel if you were there and were not able to make a difference?
and what if the other option allowed you to not be able to save those 200 people, but by being more organized and structured you were much more successful saving the injured than you would have been had it been done hap hazard.
there is no guarantee that soldiers with their bare hands would have been able to save that many people, but there is a guarantee that with better plannign they have a higher chance of saving survivors and people who would otherwise die of hunger, disease or injuries…how many lives would those be?
I mean to all those who are crying about shoulda woulda coulda..lets get beyond that, lets do what is needed now… everyone can come back and beat up on speed of response once the situation is stabilized.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
Fradiye u skipped to answer. But let me answer ur question. Atleast i will feel i tryed.
I m not talking about moving the whole army with no direction..did i say that? No. Infact I only mentioned 200 men. There would be still hundreds/thousands back that r in coordination with ‘the better planning that is comming’.
There is no guarantee that these soldiers would have been able to save lives, Yes there is None. But there were natives who did dig & saved some of the friends & families didnt they? those men can save few without tools & coordination & these trained men can not?
& these 200 men r not going in deserted place forever they r right there in towns, when the coordinated help arrives they r still there. Hunger & disease are the issue that would start after 48 hours.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
may be the reason they werent sent in earlier, was to prevent army casualties? and whoever said its the job of the army to save civilians in these catastrophes...the soldiers might be wanting to, and being the only organised instition in the country thery need to as well, but that really is not the only priority of the army, is it? trust ppl at the top to know just how much more important soldiers lives are than civilians...
u r being very stupid here taking solodiers lives so lightly.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
johnny
u fail to grasp the basic premise here
whether its 200 men or 20 or 2000
what is the best impact they can make
run now, or prepare now and run in a bit
that is the decision that was faced by military leaders
they had information about their capabilities, casualties (of military resources and civilian govt infrastructure) that we do not know.
you or I or the average joe, or average javed on the street may think we are pannay khan and have the answers but have you or I, or ppl in the street criticizing experts in logistics at such level? for disaster relief. now right or wrong we can not change what has happened..so what can we change or impact
we can impact what is going on right now, and that is by doign what we can to help. if u provide one tent to a family that needs it, or medicine for skick or surgical supplies for one person who needs a surgery..
that is simply what our focus needs to be the the short run.
and ppl who are complaining in cities like islamabad, lahore or karachi..tell them to open their doors and have one family live with them until the family is able to get back on its feet.
talk is cheap..action is where its at.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
i think it only confirms my suspicion that the Pakistani army is not as capable as many people make / want us to believe.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
Instant gratification or satisfaction may not save lives that could be saved via cooridnated effort. IT would only make some people feel good about themselves, satisfy their conscience. That does’nt necessarily mean it’s the correct course of action. A few hundred/thousand unprepared & discordant soldiers rushing into a disaster area could prove a logistical nightmare for the commanders and distribute (or squander) manpower resources otherwise required in the hardest hit areas. Khair, I hope you are bright enough to get the point.
Pakistanis are big on emotions or jaz’baat. And, it doesn’t surprise me that people at the low or lowest ranks of the army (and other services) are whinging about lack of ‘immediate’ response. I have yet to hear one international expert, one disaster area relief worker to blame Pakistani administration or the Army for a delayed or a poor response.
Like I said, jaz’baat and instant gratificatiion/satisfcation don’t solve problems. They could infact make matters worse.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
I heard the reporters on CNN and BBC world doing exactly the same. At least in 2 occassions, when reporters managed to get to some remote area. They were slacking the government for not being able to reach those places still.
In once occassion it was in a BBC reporter in Muzaffarabad even and taking an interview with some local doctor who was praising the British teams *(no doubt, they must have done something good - nothing against the British or aynone) *for their good work and demeaning the government and the army for not having done anything at all. Whereas, Muzaffarabad was one of the first places where the army was already present and had started the relief efforts.
I mean, its the press spreading rumours to use it in their own benefit, whatever that might be.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
And i feel u r missing the whole point here.
It is not only my personal opinion but it involves higher middle level management of Army it self that admits it was capable of performing what it is performing now much earlier. But it was asked NOT to.
If the reason was valid (lets say the better organized way was comming) that is fine with me. But if the reason as some doubt was a personal greed of few at top most level then its a diffrent story altogather.
About those 10 or 200 men dont just always go by the rules. That is exactly why humans are still better then computers, computers only think with logic. U can see two men right in front of u under some stone, u should not go & get them out, bcos better help is comming we will then try to get those 20 which are in the next building.
And i never said i was some phannay khan, dont know about u :o
Anyways, like 99% of other discussions here this thread is only turning to as ‘I know better, i m right u r wrong’. So let it be u. I m out.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
A big news has not been disclosed and tht is the death of son of major general Farooq Khan who is looking after all the relief operation and Farooq looks amazingly calm as though nothing has happened...he even did not tell this to musharaf so musharaf would have not given him such a mjor role....His two cousins also died in the earthquake....tht major general is also the cousin of famous cricketer Imran Khan..
army is trying his best but the area of destruction is so big...
although i also think operation could have started bit earliear..khair thts not a blame time...
we should look forward
Re: Criticism and Rants.
When New Orleans was flooded the richest most powerful country in the world couldn’t evacuate people even though its hardly a city in mountain passes that’s not accessible. It took the US like 5 days to get those people out of the Superdome right?
I’m no fan of the Pak army, but I’m impressed they’ve managed to mobilize as quickly as they have
Also to get an idea of what’s happening in Pakistan itself read this;
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GJ14Df01.html
Do you people on here who are living in Pakistan agree with the sentiment?
Re: Criticism and Rants.
Johny you are considering things to be far simpler than they are. If not now, then I will suggest that you visit some of these area when things are better, you will come to appreciate the efforts then.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
[quote=“elahi”]
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GJ14Df01.html
[QUOTE]
nice article.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
-
you dont know if the reason was valid or not, u may have your opinions and feelings but that does not mean that is the case
-
higher middle level of army in what capacity,
-
humans are better than computers but emotion has to be balanced by logic.
-
i called all of us atrmchair experts including myself phannay khan, no need to take it personally
-
this is not an " I know better, I am right you are wrong" but that you or I dont know and let those who are experts make the calls. lets spend our energies in doing something positive.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
Bottom line is IT NOT A RESCUE MISSION anymore; it is now considered as relief efforts. Yeah go right ahead and setup an inquiry commission like it was done in the past, 50 -55 years of Pakistani history, for all the major events. We all know the outcome, so let us not waste any further keystrokes.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
i'm just curious as to why wasnt the muzafarabad airport used by c-130s to drop off supplies. was it damaged? also there was a proper airport in saidu sharif 6 yrs back when i last visited. now swat area wasnt as baddly damaged, so it could have been used as a drop off point as well.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
^ The same goes for the airfield at Skardu, the C130 has no problems with short take off and landings. However from what I've gathered thus far they are mostly executing low level drop offs over large fields where awaiting soldiers are then passing the aid on. Considering how small PA and PAF's helo fleet is one can only appreciate the flat out work these guys have done so far. The magnitude of difficulty these guys are facing is made worse by the terrain and reaching such distant villages.
Re: Criticism and Rants.
Absolutely Agree :k: Thank you Mehnaz. I am tired of friggin’ Geo interviewing people who are blaming the govt for not acting fast enough.
eating grass
some people in the quake hit areas have to resort to eating grass in order to survive... And it was the media that helped identify the army of some of the places that had been forgottenn... isn't the army supposed to know all that themselves or were they relying on the short-term memories of Pakistani people to bury everything .....There are l villages that still haven't been accessesd.. If you guys are still donating then ask ur families back home to donate blankets and tinned foods rather than donating money to the government....thanks