Re: cries of a weary soul...
irem bibi, whats worse? letting yourself be fooled by a fraudulent person who wants to emigrate.. or casting doubt on a raped lady, and suggesting she might be inventing her pain?
sure presume innocence for the perp. , dont suggest guilt for the victim..
aur aap to kaam kar rahin thin..
Re: cries of a weary soul...
ravage the point is its not been proven she was dishonored. the day it is proven she will have my sympathies. till then i'm on neither side.
i'm not suggesting guilt for the "victim". who's the victim here has it been proven?
why don't you guys examine the facts before jumping to conclusions???
khair, i'm taking a break :p
Re: cries of a weary soul...
and if u notice her statements which changed from being completely critical of the govt to a different tone, you will know what i mean, that gives me further reason to have doubts.
Allah o Alim
Re: cries of a weary soul...
Irem, maybe it's a bigger deal in our 'conservative' society because not many women muster up the courage to speak out. And when they do, they're hushed and scorned. And then we demand to see numbers on a piece of paper because false stats make us feel better. The fact that the government had to get involved only goes to show how unreliable our legal system is.
Comparing societies and saying we’re better than another is a load of crap. A crime is a crime regardless of who the victim is.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
it has been established that she was raped irem. the identity of the rapist is in question, not her victimhood.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_10-3-2005_pg1_2
and i dont think u should read too much into her ‘changing’ her story. i doubt anyone should reasonably expect her to remember and record every exact detail.
Re: cries of a weary soul...
hayaa yar who said anything about better or worse?
Its just a fact that a case where a woman is dishonored is a much bigger deal in Pakistan than America, that's the whole point.
This whole incident where the Baloch went up in arms against the army b/c supposedly a woman was dishonored in territory that came under their control...do you see this happenning in NYC?
There's a gulf of difference b/w societies, nobody is saying better/worse here.
A woman who's been dishonored deserves nothing but sympathy no matter where she belongs to, we're all human beings and share the same feelings. That was not the point though.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
The so called comission in charge of the investigation (after much deliberation 
) has decided that the female is responsible for the rape!! WTF??? What a pathetic tragedy and an embarrassment for the nation. Then again, if the President himself boldly declares even BEFORE the start of the investigation that the captain is innocent, then there is no other verdict possible.
Re: cries of a weary soul...
You guys r right, there is no comparison btw NYC and Pak. A woman isn't expcted to commit suicide if she's been raped; a sad conclusion as such is the exception, not the norm. Her family izzat isn't gone (and plz, no BS about how families haev no izzat or honor here). She is encouraged to report the crime and not stay quiet. Too conservative isn't good.
Re: cries of a weary soul...
skhan, i agree, its a frikkin shame.
sara, dont knock pakistani society. the bulk of us here are products of it, and all of us condemn the rape, and would want nothing better than to get it punished to the extent of the law if not more.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
ok I will tell u about a couple of my friends, and I can make u talk to them if u want and u can hear the story from them.
ONE: She got raped a couple of years back, and she is turning 18 soon, this gal was raped by his brothers friend and his family know about it too now and no charges were put against the rapist cuz he was family friend.
TWO: This gal was raped and then she was told by the rapist that he loves her so much so when she didnt become his gf so he had to do it and then after some times she married that guy.
a few more such cases, and now u will definitely wana know how I know them?
so I have been member of 4 different leagues in a gamming site and have loads of friends in western countries, and trust me that these two are just examples, I have heard lots and lots of such stories.
Re: cries of a weary soul...
er i edited my response....
I dont' feel that all of paki society/culture is a horrible thing...however there are many many flaws , one being the legal system and the very jaahil concept of "honor"/"izzat" that prevents women from getting the justice they deserve..
Re: cries of a weary soul...
nahi i doubt BM that rape is considered a valid form of dating, even over here.
[quote]
I dont' feel that all of paki society/culture is a horrible thing...however there are many many flaws , one being the legal system and the very jaahil concept of "honor"/"izzat" that prevents women from getting the justice they deserve..
[/quote]
thanku for the edit :) . the badly flawed legal system isnt really a feature of the society as such tho. and yes, i agree, izzat shouldnt prevent women from getting justice.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
Those are very sad stories, but it doesn’t mean that those girls don’t care what happened or felt it was right, whatever. What happened was very very very wrong and should nto have been tolerated. The parents should be punished for putting their daughter through such emotional turmoil. But ur statement was still very far off. I’m from NY, I’ve lived here all my life, and god forbid something like this were to happen, I would not go on living as if nothing had happened. Same with my friends who were born/bred here, desi, non desi, non muslim, etc.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
rav sorry i had heard something different. i had heard that the matter was going to be taken to the supreme court and final hearings will be done there, and till then we will not know the truth.
so i guess my knowledge was not recent.
if indeed she was dishonored, then she deserves every ounce of sympathy.
“In this country a woman has no status,” Shershah Syed, of the Pakistan Medical Association, told the Guardian. “She is an object, like a cow or a bucket
btw what kinda retarded statement is this in that article? such statements annoy the heck out of me.
Sara yaar who tells u this stuff about Pakistan? a woman in Pak is expected to commit suicide if she has been dishonored? how come i dont know about it 
you’re operating on stereotypes and false propaganda abt Pak.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
they annoy me too, and they dont apply to me or you or our families but when things like shazia khan and mukhtaran mai and that raped, burnt girl happen, and the guilty ****s roam scotfree then hum kia munh dekhanay ke qabil reh jatay hein? kis zaban say deny karein is statement ko when for all our Islam and cultural conservative values, ye din deharay ho bhi jata hay?
han jis ghar ki izzat khatam karni hoti hay uski aurat pe hamla karte hein. hein is tarah ke janwar bhi. yahan aur tareh ke hein.. hamaray haan aur tarah ke.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
rav aik incident kee wajah se pooRi society ko bura bhala kehna, it just doesnt make sense
crimes happen in all societies and are condemnable but if a crime happens in pak then all of pak society is termed as barbaric, backward and so on. why?
and the worst thing is we ourselves are dissing our own soiety all the time which is what really sux.
Re: cries of a weary soul...
pata nahi. i really dont know. perhaps you and i live in a different society and these rapists have their own world.
i'll tell u a story. i went to a computer shop in pakistan.. uni center mein. i was waiting there with four other guys, waiting while my computer was getting fixed. one of them happened to be a nephew of a big police officer or something. he was bragging about how he couldnt get screwed in uni center because once when he had been, his uncle ransacked the whole shop and took all the computers. then he went on to talk about how his uncle used to roam around Clifton beach catching couples. he said their police wagon stumbled on the car of a very young girl, 14 years of age (he gloated over this), kissing her driver. and the car happened to be a court justice's car. using her father's position and respect as blackmail, the uncle and his whole team gangraped the young girl. bear in mind, that he was telling all this, and bragging about this as a perk. he described this scene at some length and detail.
and what was sickening was that throughout this story, whether made up or not, nobody in the whole shop was disgusted. nobody wanted to screw his head off, and they were all laughing along, and in the end, one said that he'll apply to get into the police now.
and no, all of them were lower middle class loge. nothing western about them. five random loge, from our conservative, islamic culture, and this was their attitude towards rape.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
Request to GS administration: Can we make this into a banner, please if only for a few hours, please. 
On the topic I would say that both of these are really sad cases and more should be done to protect females from going through such an ordeal.
Re: cries of a weary soul…
ravage ewwww thats disgusting :yukh:
those guys were jus plain retards
there are idiots in every country in every society
its not that pak has more of them tho or its the norm in pak
do u think pakistani society as a whole condones women being dishonored?
ashtray 
haanji thori boht kameengi har insaan mein hoti hae
and yeah i agree with you, i wish more could be done all over the world to protect women from such ordeals and generally human beings from sufferrring.
Re: cries of a weary soul...
btw rav those guys who were laughing in agreement prolly did it jus coz the guy was was telling the story was a big shot, and were prolly scared that if they disagreed he'd get them in a mess, he'd already displayed what a numb skull he was.
im sure all of them in their hearts dint really agree to him so dont think so.