Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

Actually, I think it's a pretty apt description for the Ashkenazim, who make up most of Israel's Jewish population, and who according to their own historical records, have lived nowhere near Palestine for over 1000 years before the creation of modern-day Israel.

Africa is considered to be the birthplace of all humanity - I suppose we all have a right to "return" a couple millennia later, expel the natives, and set up our own self-proclaimed homelands.

Offering the Palestinians semi-autonomous, fractionated Bantustans is not a legitimate attempt at peace by any stretch of the imagination.

Hah. Forget the occupied territories...everyone from Human Rights Watch to the US State Department has recognized the fact that Israeli citizens of Arab descent are treated like second class citizens.

Re: Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

Aquaducts!

see this from wikipedia. However I don’t know if anyone else reached the scale / span of the empire as the Romans did

Although particularly associated with the Romans, aqueducts were devised much earlier in the Near East and Indian subcontinent, where peoples such as the Egyptians and Harappans built sophisticated irrigation systems. Roman-style aqueducts were used as early as the 7th century BC, when the Assyrians built an 80 km long limestone aqueduct, 10 m high and 300 m wide, to carry water across a valley to their capital city, Nineveh.**
India**

The Indian subcontinent is believed to have some of the earliest aqueducts. Evidence can be found at the sites of present day Hampi. The massive aqueducts near river Tungabhadra supplying irrigation water were once 15 miles (24 km) long[2]](Aqueduct - Wikipedia). The water ways supplied water to royal bath houses.

Bull****. Your exact comments were:

[quote]
When there is a war, people are getting killed. On both sides. Such is the nature of wars, unfortunately.
[/quote]

Talk about being a hypocrite.

I don't see how my original statement is any different from the following one. They have exactly the same meaning.

First of all, Ashkenazim make up about a half of the Israeli Jewish population, not "most" of it.
Second, yes, due to very unfortunate historical circumstances, the Jews (including Ashkenazis) lived long time in exile ("galut"), away from the Land of Israel. And nevertheless, they preserved their national identity and the link to the Land of Israel as an integral and one of central parts of this identity. And every year they recited "next year in Jerusalem", and repeated the passage "if I forget thee Jerusalem..." and mourned on the 9th of Av the loss of the Temple and the homeland.

But if you say that the life in exile invalidates the connection of a people with their lost homeland, try to explain your theory to those people - born and bred in, say, London or Toronto - who call themselves Palestinians and demand the right of return to Palestine.

I trust you understand the difference between the origin of the human species and the national identity and the national homeland (one and only) of a specific nation.
Besides, the Jews did not come to expel anyone. The expulsion was a result of the war that the Jews did not want and did not start.

Offering the Jews a solution that would abolish their independence (again!) is not a legitimate attempt at peace either. The question is why only the Arabs are allowed to reject unacceptable offers.

The occupied territories are not the state of Israel (even by the Israeli laws).
Second, all Israeli citizens, including the Arabs, enjoy the same civil and democratic rights with all the benefits of citizenship.
There is obviously some inter-ethnic tension, but where is there none? It is safe to say though that the Israeli Palestinians are in a much better shape in terms of civil rights, political freedoms and democracy than the Palestinians (or Arabs in general) living in the Arab countries.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately?), it is a fake quote

Nice picture though :slight_smile:

Here are some more “evil zionist occupiers”

It would be safe to say that 99.99% of Israel-is-Pakistan’s-enemy stories in Pakistan are myths.

strange thing is that such stories are spread by Pakistanis and then believed as “divine revelations” by Pakistanis.

The simple reason is that extreme Sunni intellectuals in Pak have “internalized” these rumors, so that they could push Pakistan closer to Saudis.

the Shia intellectuals in Pakistan spread these rumors so that they can keep anti-Israel and anti-US fires burning in Pak.

And our dear poster nasirahmad clearly belongs to one such intellectual who is so ready to post lies and rumors.

Burqa,

Yet again, pretty spot on. Although the IDF is unbeatable, the Israelis are loosing the demographic battle. By 2030, the Palestinians will outnimber them.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I think Pakistanis need to realise that we are not Arabs, and never will be. Israel has always offered the olive branch, but we have rejected it.

And no one here ever condems Saudi Arabia for interfering in our internal affairs, arming the Taliban, opressing our guestworkers in Saudi and indulging in killing of Shia clerics in Pakistan.

Khoji,

What would you do if you had an army of crazy marijuana smoking, camel loving Arabs, who was want to wipe out of existence. You would make sure you have the biggest nuclear arsenal in the plannet.

Can't compare Isreal with the USSR. The Russians have imperial ambitions, the Israelis don't. They just want a secure state.

Having lived in Kuwait, Saudi and Jordan, most Arabs privately accept that peace with Israel is the only solution, and that includes Hamas and Ikhwan Ul Muslimeen supporters. The only people who refuse to beleive in solutions are the Paks.

Surely you aren't trying to equate a people who's last direct connection to the land was over 1000 years ago to those who were forced out just 1-2 generations ago and have since been living in refugee camps? Platitudes observed on Passover aside, the Jewish people settled and fully acculturated themselves across Europe and the Middle East over the course of that millennium, and at best retained a tenuous, largely symbolic relationship with the land of Palestine. Moreover, how do their rights to the land somehow supersede those of the Palestinians? After all, the Palestinians are essentially descendants of local Jews and Christians who became Arabized and (mostly) converted to Islam...does the act of conversion somehow negate their right to a homeland?

Fine. My ancestors left Iran and settled in Kashmir in the 17th century. Like many other similar families, we retain a Persian surname, and continue to observe Persian cultural customs. Our linguistic heritage is also heavily influenced by the Persian language, in fact, up until my grandparents' generation, people in my family still learned Farsi in addition to the local language. Does that give me, and other South Asians of Persian descent, the right to carve out a "homeland" in modern-day Iran?

What about the Moors? Andalucian Arabs lived in Spain for nearly 800 years before they were massacred and expelled during the Reconquista. Many of them fled to modern day Morocco, where to this day, their descendants still pass down the keys to their ancestral homes in Spain as heirlooms, once saved in hope of returning. They also speak a dialect heavily influenced by Andalucian Arabic. Surely they have a right to return to Granada and claim a Moorish homeland?

How, pray tell, did they intend to establish a "Jewish state" in a land that where Muslims and Christians comprised over 2/3 of the population then? The war simply provided an excuse for the forced expulsion of non-combatant civilians as part of the ethnic cleansing necessary to make way for the Israeli state.

Arguments about the historical legitimacy of the creation of Israel aside, I think the continued existance of an Israeli state is a reality that the Palestinian people, and the Arab/Muslim world as whole, simply need to get used to. That said, how would the creation of a viable, independent, territorially contiguous Palestine, as part of a two state solution, "abolish [Israel's] independence?"

Frankly, its probably in Israel's best interests too. I think Tzipi Livni said it best when she pointed out (and I'm paraphrasing) that there are essentially three goals for Israel - (1) to be a Jewish state, (2) to be a democracy, (3) and to occupy all of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea - however, Israel can only accomplish any 2 of these goals together. (1) & (2) would require getting rid of Arab-majority areas like the West Bank and Gaza, as demographic realities would otherwise make Israel a Muslim-majority country within a few decades. (1) & (3) would require an apartheid state, for the same demographic reasons. (2) & (3) would again cease to be a "Jewish state."

What are you talking about? Israel hold all of the cards in the region - no major world power is going to force Israel to do anything it doesn't want to, nor has any major world power indicated that it will do so in the forseeable future. Israel vetoes whatever it wants...even its finanical/military benefactors, who basically keep the nation afloat, can't tell it what to do.

Which is why clearly said I was going to ignore the situdation there and focus on Israeli Arabs.

Perhaps the most laughable thing you've said so far. Israel is a self-defined "Jewish state." Lip service to equal rights aside, its laws have been drafted to ensure preferential treatment for Jews...whether its in terms of immigration (why do only Jews have the "right of return"?), or the right to recover lost properties (Jews can reclaim propeties lost in '48, internally displaced Israeli Arabs cannot), or land rights (the government has sold 15% of the nation's land to the Jewish National Fund, which openly prohibits the leasing of land to Israeli Gentiles)...I could go on. Or we can talk about the government's neglect of Arab communities....why is it that public schools in Jewish areas receive nearly 6 times more government funding per pupil than their counterparts in Arab areas?

so howz the weather in mumbai mr gaurav?

i dont like gauravites playing jews

Sorry. I don't get the joke. Care to explain?

Shahjee,

Spain has offered citizenship to many Moors. Actually, I pretty much agree with what you have said, except that Israel is now a reality, and eventually we will all have to cut a deal with them

Spain has offered an easier pathway to citizenship to Sephardic Jews of Spanish ancestry - there is no such arrangement in place for Arab Muslim Moors. There was some talk of creating a similar arrangement for them, but nothing came of it, nor would I hold my breath in anticipation of the Spanish government approving a deluge of dark skinned, Muslim immigrants.

In any case, that is not analogous to the situation in Israel. Like I said, do the Moors have a right to carve out a state in southern Spain, expel most of the native Spaniards, and declare it a "Moorish Muslim homeland?"

I already said that in my previous post. But the deal needs to be realistic. Previous offers from the Israelis have been for a semi-autonomous Palestinian state comprised of several small Palestinian pockets separated by miles of Israeli territory. It's not a viable, independent, contiguous nation...such ridiculous offers serve neither the long term interests of the Israelis, nor the Palestinians.

Re: Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

Khan15:

[quote]
and eventually we will all have to cut a deal with them
[/quote]

But what if THEY don't want to cut a deal with you? What if they present a deal which includes destruction of Quds?
Will you EVENTUALLY cut a deal with some other people who may occupy Makkah and Medina?

Alex:

[quote]
The Land of Israel, specifically, is the cradle of the Jewish people, the place were the Jewish identity was born and the Jewish nation came to be
[/quote]

Who are YOU, a Khazar atheist, to talk about Jewish identity and nation?

Besides, stop talking on RELIGIOUS GROUNDS about why this land is important to Jews. Because Muslims have their own reasons to consider that land their holy land.

The point is that all of you Israeli Zionists are foreigners in that land who have come from various countries in the world. THAT's what matters.

[quote]
Because they don't know them either. Everything they wrote - they pulled it right out of their asses
[/quote]

I only quoted various news items which are making a claim based on their sources. That's it. Now it is YOU who are rejecting their claim, and at the same time acknowledging that you have no basis to reject this claim.

So I didn't make a claim. YOU did. So it should be you proving it. Not me.

--

I would also add that all that talk about Jews wanting to return to their Promised Land is nothing but religious talk. A Jewish nation or race does not exist. And since it is a religious talk therefore it is preposterous to hear it coming from an atheist.
Earlier when I reminded this Zionist about his actually being an atheist then he said"

[quote]
It's called considering feelings and beliefs of OTHER people.
[/quote]

How about considering feelings and beliefs of MUSLIM people?

  • You are contradicting yourself. If we are not Arab then how could WE reject it?

  • If WE are the ones rejecting the olive branches offered by "innocent" Zionist apartheid terrorist war criminals, then why is today disagreement between Washington and Nutty Yahoo?
    And this is just ONE example.

  • There is no question of being an Arab or not. The question is about being a MUSLIM. So if you consider yourself a Muslim then it is your cause as well, regardless of being Arab or not. If you are not a Muslim then, I agree, it is not your issue.

  • It could be that you don't like fanatics among Muslims, and since most fanatics also are against Israel, and since you always oppose fanatics; therefore your support of Israel is actually your opposition to Muslim fanatics.

If this is the your reason then let me assure that I am against fanaticism more than you are. But not everything that fanatics say or do is to be opposed. For example, they also believe in کلمہ, but that does not mean that we give it up only because of them.
Again, we need to realize that the Middle East problem is not an Arab problem but an Islamic one. This is similar to the situation if Makkah were at stake. Such a problem would also not be just an Arab problem.

  • By calling it an Arab problem you are, intentionally or otherwise, playing in the hands of Zionist propagandists. It is they who would like to present this issue as an Arab issue when in reality it is an Islamic issue.

Khan:

[quote]
Can't compare Isreal with the USSR. The Russians have imperial ambitions, the Israelis don't.
[/QUOTE]

Not only that. There are MANY MORE differences between USSR and Israelis. Some go in favor of Israelis and some don't.
You need to understand that the purpose of giving example of USSR was not to claim commonality of situation between USSR and Israel but to show that a regime may end up breaking up despite of having nuclear arsenal. That is, the purpose was to show the possibility.

[quote]
Having lived in Kuwait, Saudi and Jordan, most Arabs privately accept that peace with Israel is the only solution, and that includes Hamas and Ikhwan Ul Muslimeen supporters. The only people who refuse to beleive in solutions are the Paks.
[/quote]

Too many sweeping generalized statements. To me the above is not even worthy of a response, sorry to say.

But I would say that personally I think Arabs are not the only party to the problem. This is an Islamic issue, and it involves all Islamic world.

Re: Cowardly Idf Soldiers, amazing clip

Arafat & co played their cards very wrong and lost. The ability to identify clear morally strong and morally weak side in that contest was lost a long time ago.

If a conflict had gone on a for a while, to resolve it, you have to stop asking both who hit first and who hit back first.

that is, if you're looking for a resolution.