Re: Copying Non-Muslims
2-An other hadees says "acquire education even if you have to go to china "
Brother, I have confirmed from a scholar that this hadith is not valid. I haven't yet found any authentic source which contains this hadith
I've heard that hadees used to stress the importance of education....which seems to be a low priority for alot of Muslims, esp with women..so if this one is not true, then are there any other hadiths which DO emphasize knowledge and education?
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
I've heard that hadees used to stress the** importance of education.**...which seems to be a low priority for alot of Muslims, esp with women..so if this one is not true, then are there any other hadiths which DO emphasize knowledge and education?
Sara! Do we need a hadis (or other divine revelations) to figure out something so obvious?
Importance of learning, awareness etc. is well known from the stone age. It is sad that we bring religion into things that we were supposed to know anyway.
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
How convenient. The Cheen-education hadith is found in Al-Bukhari and if we're going to start questioning the line of translators and discard the hadith as possibly misattributed to the Prophet then that creates license for us to re-judge all other hadith. Leave it to your conveniences. When you want to encourage and excuse lazy-non academic achieving people like yourselves, its all fine to start questioning hadith, isn't it?
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
How convenient. The Cheen-education hadith is found in Al-Bukhari and if we're going to start questioning the line of translators and discard the hadith as possibly misattributed to the Prophet then that creates license for us to re-judge all other hadith. Leave it to your conveniences. When you want to encourage and excuse lazy-non academic achieving people like yourselves, its all fine to start questioning hadith, isn't it?
Peace Sister
As I said earlier, the general message in the hadith is correct, but the complete hadith is at best enhanced.
Here is something I took from another place describing the critique of this hadith:
This narration is one of the most oft-quoted hadith in books about Islam written in English. It was mentioned by ibn 'Adi, an-Nesabori, al-Khataab al-Baghdaadi and others. All of them narrated from al-Hasan ibn 'Atiyyah who was told by abu 'Aatikah Tareef ibn Salmaan from Anas in a marfoo' form. All of them added, "For seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim." Ibn Adi said, "As for the words 'Even in China', i do not know anyone who narrates it except al-Hasan ibn 'Atiyyah. Al-Khateeb agreed with this statement. Al-Albaani says that it was mentioned by abu 'Atikah, but that he is abandoned in hadith. He says that there is agreement among the scholars as to abu 'Atikah's weakness. Bukhaari said, "His hadith are munkar," while an-Nasaa'ee said, "He is unreliable," and as-Sulaimaani declared him to be amongst those known to fabricate hadith.
Ibn al-Jawzi also narrated it in Al-Mawdoo'at saying, "Ibn Hibban said, 'False and baseless."' As-Sakhawi agreed with this. As for as-Suyooti, he narrated it, saying, "Verily it has two other chains: the first from among the narration of Yaqoob ibn Ishaq and concerning Yaqoob, adh-Dhahabi said, 'A liar.'"
The second is from the narration of Ahmad ibn Abdullah al-Juwaibari from abu Hurairah in a marfoo' form, but only the first part of it. As-Suyooti said, "And al-Juwaibari is a fabricator."
The second part of this hadith, "For seeking knowledge is incumbent..." has many chains of narrators according to al-Albaani, and it is possible that they reach to the level of hasan as was claimed by al-Mizzi who said that it was narrated from many different sources on the authority of Anas- at least eight according to al-Albaani, while it is narrated from several other companions also, including ibn Umar, abu Sa'eed, ibn Abbaas, ibn Masood.
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
STP 1-A hdees says"you can wear what ever you want, avoiding 2 things. make sure you don't show off, and you don't overspent"
2-An other hadees says "acquire education even if you have to go to china "
Sara! Do we need a hadis (or other divine revelations) to figure out something so obvious?
Importance of learning, awareness etc. is well known from the stone age. It is sad that we bring religion into things that we were supposed to know anyway.
but we have hadeeths that deal with every single thing in our lives right? from what we eat and drink to how to do it, personal hygiene matters, ways to deal with people, how to treat others...etc... so why not about education? I'm just curious :@:
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
Then he asked, that what sort of a society would they bring about if their most pious people couldn't marry three of four generations down you will have lower and lower calibre people because their most pious people died as spinsters or bachelors ...
Islam however, promotes the clergy to be married and all Muslims to heavily consider it.
Quality of a person is only partially genetic. And the proportion played by he genes in that has been coming down over time because of exposure. I will elaborate.
In the old times, a person was exposed a few small villages around where he was born and lived. Marriage, associations, trade, education everything happened in small clusters. So the proportion of external influences were small in comparison to genetic, family traits. In that situation, I can certainly see some possibility of that argument ...because upbringing in a atmosphere of 'piety' or whatever quality is likely to breed more of it.
But then the printing press, trains, planes, radio, TV and Internet all came along. Nobody is limited in information or external influence. Travel is cheap, settling in alien lands is common...under these circumstances, the environment is global and the role of immediate relatives, while still important, is only a fraction of what it used to be in old times.
That is why what you have referred to doesn't scale I think.
In fact in the current (and what has been for past several centuries) atmosphere those that take up the collar or priesthood voluntarily rather than because of family compulsion actually are mor pious...just like first generation immigrants work a lot harder than their children (in general that is). Because it is a transformation they themselves undertook and forced into circumstantially.
The other point I'd make is that Islam is not the only religion that allows marriage of their clergy. Hindu priests have regular family life (unless they undertake the sanyas or renunciation in which case they are not priests anymore); some christian denominations do not bar family life for clergy.
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
As far as Christianity goes i think (I THINK) it is the Catholics that don't allow clergy to marry. But protestants are allowe d to hav families
Re: Copying Non-Muslims
Quality of a person is only partially genetic. And the proportion played by he genes in that has been coming down over time because of exposure. I will elaborate.
In the old times, a person was exposed a few small villages around where he was born and lived. Marriage, associations, trade, education everything happened in small clusters. So the proportion of external influences were small in comparison to genetic, family traits. In that situation, I can certainly see some possibility of that argument ...because upbringing in a atmosphere of 'piety' or whatever quality is likely to breed more of it.
But then the printing press, trains, planes, radio, TV and Internet all came along. Nobody is limited in information or external influence. Travel is cheap, settling in alien lands is common...under these circumstances, the environment is global and the role of immediate relatives, while still important, is only a fraction of what it used to be in old times.
That is why what you have referred to doesn't scale I think.
In fact in the current (and what has been for past several centuries) atmosphere those that take up the collar or priesthood voluntarily rather than because of family compulsion actually are mor pious...just like first generation immigrants work a lot harder than their children (in general that is). Because it is a transformation they themselves undertook and forced into circumstantially.
The other point I'd make is that Islam is not the only religion that allows marriage of their clergy. Hindu priests have regular family life (unless they undertake the sanyas or renunciation in which case they are not priests anymore); some christian denominations do not bar family life for clergy.
Peace StirCrasy
Actually I agree with you ... My initial point was not intended to be a genetic one. My point was that pious people, moreover pious clergy who propagate religion will do well having children because they are likely to continue the message, provided it is done properly. You will find people who are scholars more often than not their offspring are also close in their footprints.
I also believe that with the right sort of message from the parents the information age will not affect the upbringing. It is true that other religions allow marriage of clergy my point was not intended to be exclusive. I was merely saying that Islam promotes it, rather than allows it.