Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Yes, there were instances where hazrat muhammad(pbuh) ordered killing of certain people especially after the conquest of Makkah, he(pbuh) ordered to kill listed 10 people even if they are found seeking refuge clutching the drapes of Kaaba. This incident is quite often quoted by the advocates of death penalty for apostates. I think you know that many of the 10 named condemned men were pardoned. You will not find it anywhere that the holy prophet(pbuh) ordered to apprehend them and gave them three days to come back to Islam. That never happened. The fact of the matter is that those people were condemned to death because of their atrocities against muslims and they sided with kuffar etc. and not just because they left Islam. Holy prophet (pbuh) PARDONED most of them for instance, Abdullah bin abi sarh was among the ten condemned men. He used to be a scribe of the holy prophet(pbuh). later, he apostatized and joined the non-believers. After his death sentence, hazrat Usman(ra) requested for his pardon and the holy prophet(pbuh) granted his pardon. Had it been a law to kill apostates, how could prophet (pbuh) had gone against this law on someone's request.
Sir first out of 10 men 4 were killed two of them for blashmey 1 for Apostasy and one for murder secondly when HAZRAT USMAN RA came to PROPHET SAW and asked for pardon HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW remained quiet for some time but after some time he gave pardon and that man went away after he went away HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW asked his companions why didn't you killed him they said you didn't gave us any sign so he said you should yourself understand some but than he said don't kill him now he has accepted Islam again so this clearly proves that their is death sentence for blashmey and sir plz quote full incident or do not quote
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
I don't know about this - Mukobhai - why were the other 6 spared? You seem to have great historical knowledge of Quran - and it is impressive. Can you provide a link where I can read more about this?
Thanks
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Sir first out of 10 men 4 were killed two of them for blashmey 1 for Apostasy and one for murder secondly when HAZRAT USMAN RA came to PROPHET SAW and asked for pardon HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW remained quiet for some time but after some time he gave pardon and that man went away after he went away HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW asked his companions why didn't you killed him they said you didn't gave us any sign so he said you should yourself understand some but than he said don't kill him now he has accepted Islam again so this clearly proves that their is death sentence for blashmey and sir plz quote full incident or do not quote
Sir, I based my reply on the following narration:
"Ibni ‘Abbas relates that ‘Abdullah bin
Sa‘d bin Abi Sarh used to be a scribe of the
Holy Prophetsa but was led astray by Satan and
he joined the non-believers. On the day of the
fall of Mecca, the Holy Prophetsa ordered that
he be killed. Hadrat ‘Uthmanra requested for his
pardon, which was approved and he was thus
forgiven." (Sunan Abi Da’ud, Awwalu Kitabil Hududi, Babul Hukmi fi Manirtadda.
Hadith No. 4358)
the incident you quoted is another narration. Could you corroborate this fact that he accepted Islam before getting pardon. The point I made was that if there was a clear verdict on death punishment of an Apostate, Hazrat Usman (as) had not dared to give him refuge and then request for pardon nor had the holy prophet (pbuh) accepted the pardon.
Also please name the person whjo was killed for apostasy.
Would you mind presenting any verse from the holy Quran that talks about the topic at hand and support your stance. I presented few verses earlier. will provide more in the next posts
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
[QUOTE]
4:138)
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the way.
4:139)
Give to the hypocrites the tidings that for them is a grievous punishment,
[/QUOTE]
Here again it is mentioned that they will first
believe, then recant and become disbelievers; and then
again they would become believers and once again
they will become disbelievers and increase in their
disbelief! But for such persons, there is no mention of
being killed by the hands of the Muslims. What is
stated is only this: O Prophet! give them the tidings
that from God is a grievous punishment for them
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
[QUOTE]
3:87-90)
How shall Allah guide a people who have disbelieved after believing and who had borne witness that the Messenger was true and to whom clear proofs had come? And Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
Of such the reward is that on them shall be the curse of Allah and of angels and of men, all together.
They shall abide thereunder. Their punishment shall not be lightened nor shall they be reprieved;
Except those who repent thereafter and amend. And surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[/QUOTE]
nowhere is death punishment mentioned
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
[QUOTE]
3:73) And a section of the People of the Book say, ‘Believe in that which has been revealed unto the believers, in the early part of day, and disbelieve in the latter part thereof; perchance they may return;
[/QUOTE]
It is reported in the Tafsir books that this verse was revealed after the Christian delegation of Nijran had visited the Holy Prophetsa in Medina. And the visit of
the Nijran delegation took place in the later years of Holy Prophet'ssa life. By then the Islamic State was well established. This provides definite proof that at
that time when the Nijran delegation’s visit took place there was no trace of the idea of death penalty for apostasy. How was this possible that the People of the
Book could suggest to their own brothers to believe in the Holy Qur’an in the morning and then to commit apostasy in the evening?80 At that time, the Islamic State was firmly established and the People of the Book were fully subjugated. If they knew the
prescribed punishment for the act of apostasy was death, then they could never dare suggest this behavior to their companions.
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
[QUOTE]
63:2) When the hypocrites come to thee, they say, ‘We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah.’ And Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, but Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
63:3) They have made their oaths a shield; thus they turn men away from the way of Allah. Evil surely is that which they have been doing.
63:4) That is because they first believed, then disbelieved. So a seal was set upon their hearts and consequently they understand not.
[/QUOTE]
Who were those people? Did the Holy Prophet and his Companions have any specific knowledge of them or not? If they had the knowledge, then, after having
such strong and certain evidence that not only that they had turned apostates but also that there was no chance of their repentance, then why an order for killing them
was not issued? Or, why none of them was killed on the command of the Holy Prophetsa?
For their identification the Qur’an goes on to say that there are specific persons, about whom you (i.e. believers) know; but in spite of this knowledge you call them and say "Come [and repent so] that the Messenger of Allah may ask forgiveness for you,"
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Please read craefully what u wrote urself ..... i quote u ..... "There is no compulsion in religion." I fully understand and agree with the translation ..... yet ur interpretation bro this ayat means "u cannot force anyone to accept islam" !! ..... where u find something meaning/mentioning Islam in this Ayat ????? It says "DEEN" and not Islam ..... ur DEEN might be Islam yet there r billions of PPL on the surface of this Earth whose DEEN isn't Islam ..... please don't mix up the Quarinc wording with ur interpretation ......
Islam isn't about forcing anyone into or out of something ...... Islam gives u tools and it shows u a path which might lead to Allah SWT ..... u or me as person r in no position to force anyone onto or away from this path ...... Have u ever asked urself why many Ayats in the Holy Quran begin with "O' ye believers ....." This Divine words speaks to those who believe ..... u know the first word of the Holy Quran that Hazrat Gibrael taught Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW was "Iqra'a" meaning READ and surely it wasn't DO
So let PPL READ and then DO what they see Fit ..... it's Allah SWT who'll be the Judge
wat i was trying to say is that the ayat tells that u cannot force anyone to become muslim...as ppl quote it to reject ahkaam,saying there is no jbr in deen..so the aya is for non-muslims
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Dear 1 ummah.
If a child that is born in to a Muslim family cannot choose Islam versus any other religion - just because he was born into a Muslim household - implies that there is compulsion in religion. At least the way you interpret it.
well is it only with islam or christian n jews n hindus children do follow their parents religion how open they r to leave their religion??
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
^ Its the same - death to apostates:
Deutronomy 13:6-9
[Deuteronomy 13:6-9 NIVUK - If your very own brother, or your son - Bible Gateway
T](Deuteronomy 13:6-9 NIVUK - If your very own brother, or your son - Bible Gateway)housh since there is no state which says Christianity is the religion of the state, this is not carried out. I do not know of any Christian fundos that carry out the punishment independently - though some might have I guess?
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Modern Christianity don’t have any law because JESUS PBUH didn’t brought any new LAW he followed the law of MUSA PBUH which modern Christians have rejected
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
^ I'm not following your logic?
Christian majority nations could choose to base their laws on the Bible.
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
^ I'm not following your logic?
Christian majority nations could choose to base their laws on the Bible.
sir Bible they follow carries no LAW because JESUS PBUH didn't brought any new law he followed the shariah of MUSA PBUH but modern day Christians don't follow that
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Ok fine, present day Christians don't follow law/shariat brought by Moses (as). but Jews do. So if a Jew want to be muslim and his people want to put him to death. What will be your reaction? 'Insani haqooq ki pamaali' or what?
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
^ I'm not following your logic?
Christian majority nations could choose to base their laws on the Bible.
i guess reson is adoption of secularism,they decided to apart religion from worldly life!!
wat do the priest and nuns do?? u must have heard
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
i guess reson is adoption of secularism,they decided to apart religion from worldly life!!
wat do the priest and nuns do?? u must have heard
That is why Islam is the complete Deen and have laws for every aspect of Life from Politics to economy and complete social life
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
sir Bible they follow carries no LAW because JESUS PBUH didn't brought any new law he followed the shariah of MUSA PBUH but modern day Christians don't follow that
Actually - the quote was from the book of Deuteronomy which is in the Old Testament - which is the Torah for Jews.
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
Actually - the quote was from the book of Deuteronomy which is in the Old Testament - which is the Torah for Jews.
Most modern day Christians read that but not follow the LAWS in it
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
^ What about the Jews? Does the only Jewish state in the world follow those laws in Deuteronomy?
Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan
^ What about the Jews? Does the only Jewish state in the world follow those laws in Deuteronomy?
Yes they follow many of the laws in their book and have some issues to but they follow the rules quite often