Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Sir the words which used to come from the mouth of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW were not his words he used to only speak by the order of ALLAH and Hadees are authentic sir the fitna of denying the hadees was started by Kharjis and Hadees are not the stories these are the words spoken by HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and many of them were written by SAHABAS in the time of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW

And that is why Islam will remain safe till the day of judgement because not only its book is safe but also the life of its PROPHET SAW is safe and sound because of the hard work done by Muslims

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Well not even a leaf moves without the permission of Allah, so everything that anyone says happens with His permission?

Revelation to the Prophet was Allah speaking to the Prophet through Jibraeel. However I have never heard of this concept that every single thing that came from the mouth of the Prophet was on Allah's command (other than Hadith Qudsi - and of course not all hadith are Qudsi).

Do you deny - mukobhai - that there are some hadith which Bukhari rejected because the Isnaad didn't hold up? Do you deny that there are some hadith which are more highly regarded in terms of veracity than others?

Hadith and Sunnah are not the Word of Allah spoken through Muhammad (other than hadith Qudsi) - that is the Quran - how can you get this basic distinction wrong? The hadith as you mention are words / actions of the Prophet NONE of which were written by the Sahabas until Hazrat Usman encouraged them to do so. You might want to look into the history of how hadiths were recorded - how many were destroyed/discarded because they were contradictory to other hadith/Quran.

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Read Quran it is said in the Quran that PROPHET DOESN'T speak on his own he only speak those which ALLAH tells him to speak sir actions of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW were written in the time of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW where did HAZRAT USMAN CAME in this issue ? sir Bukhari and Muslim contain all the authentic Hadees in these two books not a single hadees is which is not authentic and not every one speaks from the order of ALLAH this was only entitled for HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Not true, hadith were not written down till much after the Prophet died.

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Don’t quote me this joker wikkipedia read books on Hadees Hadees was written in the time of PROPHET SAW and were written by the orders of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Bukhari Shareef is the book form of Hadees same just like Quran was brought into the book form in the time of HAZRAT ABU BAKAR SIDDIQ RA

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Wow - did you just equate the Holy Quran with Sahih Al Bukhari - and implying that both are equally the word of Allah?

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

I just gave an example Bukhari Shareef is just the Second book form of Hadees but Hadees was already being written and words which HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW said are the words he said on the order of ALLAH as according to Quran

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

So you agree that the Quran is above Sahih Bukhari in terms of reliability - historical accuracy?

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Quran is Quran but it is the order of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW that if you don't find something in the Quran that doesn't mean it is not there but you can't find it than look at sunnah of the PROPHET SAW

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Is that order of the Prophet in the Quran?

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

I ask you a counter question do you find all the details of SALAH and RAMZAN And ZAKAT in QURAN no sir you don't these details are told by HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW not by Quran sir so understand how Quran And Sunnah works

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

You are correct - which is why if someone doesn't give 2.5% (gives more or less) thats perfectly fine by me.

If someone does not pray 5 times a day - but rather the 3 mentioned in the Quran - that is also fine by me.

If someone performs salat in a different manner than I do - that is also fine by me.

The idea Mukobhai is that the Sunnah & Hadith can inform a Muslims actions - but cannot dictate it like the Quran can.

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Sir Muslim have to pray five time a day their is no mention of praying only 3 times sir and Sunnah can and does dictate actions which should be followed or other wise you are denying the ayats of Quran too which clearly say that follow ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW and what every HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW give you take and from whatever he prohibits leave it so if you don't follow HADEES man you are in big big trouble

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Of course I follow hadith Mukobhai - I just don't consider them as binding as the Quran.

Could you please quote the ayats of the Quran in which we are asked to follow the Prophet so we can discuss those like we're discussing 33:59 in the other thread.

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

I am going some where but I will quote to you their are many such ayats in the whole Quran

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Well I guess if you consider wikipedia a joke - I'd would appreciate it if you could point me to a book on Hadees.

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

bro scholars worked hard in collecting hadiths and fabricated ones wer rejected ..it is rule that wen ever u hear or read hadith check refrence of buk,all muslims know sahi bukhari and muslim r most authentic..u can search on net to find if a hadith is fabricated http://www.lastprophet.info/fabricated%60hadiths

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

*http://Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
*Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”

Re: Converting out of Islam - in Pakistan

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:Narrated 'Ikrima:Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).'** I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"**