Conversion back to Hinduism

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

Sir, I apologize for using this example however I mean no disrespect by it.

Before the discovery of DNA, could you have convinced anyone of who your father really was? How?

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

First let me clarify, that all the Prophets are Muslims, they got only one Message that there is one God in Arabic Allaah, and believed in Islam.

Well regarding angel descended to the Prophet, Insha Allaah the proof will be produced but let me first lay the foundation, then let us carry on frm there.
I am infact waiting for my acknowledgement for my previous post from this very thread. Its better we dont deviate the topic.

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

I have nothing to say. You have already won.

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

I opened a new thread to clear this issue but instead of answering it. It has been closed.

It would be nice if we can have an appeal process. I do not agree to this one sided decision.

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

The Irony... Islam preaches tolerance...

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
You are most welcome. I will reply to anything you ask as long as I am capable of it. Questions should be encouraged. If it had never worked before then I would agree that it was never right to begin with however Prophet Muhammad SAW formed a society, which is the hallmark of Islam and it worked. Yes, there are slumps in every society however every goal the Prophet Muhammad SAW set out to achieve in the name of Islam was achieved. So we cannot say that it never worked because it did.

I do not agree that Islam is flawed. What I would say is that our approach in implementing it is flawed. My point is that it does not matter from whose perspective we may say it is flawed, as long as we are living by Allah SWTs will. There will always be opposition. The purpose of a religion is to explain the truth about Allah SWT.

One thing we cannot do is mix and match. We cannot pick and choose from Islam and try to implement a society which is a subset of Islam, it does not work. When you try and do this you see the abominations that we all talk about today i.e. suicidal muslims, corrupt governments, fake mullahs etc. If Islam was really flawed how come we never saw these things in the Prophet SAW time, it was unheard of. They were humans like us. There is only one way of life Allah SWT has ordained for us on this earth and it is Islam. We can form societies however they should have the higher allegience to Islamic principles.

I would not like to discuss hadith in this post since we all already discussing too many things and it is hard to stay focused on one.

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Brother there is nothing much I would like to discuess with U in this holy month coz I know that plainspeak from my end may hurt someone's religious sentiments and I dont want to do that at least for a while till the holy month of Ramadan is over. Regarding hadith, I didnt intend to discuess it either, I just raised a question out of my curiosity.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Whatever the proportion may be, it is significant. I disagree, what I may agree with is that many lands came under muslim rule as a result of belligerency along the borders of the muslim state however not conversion. There is no forced conversion in Islam. It was Dawah that brought conversions of non-muslims not muslim rule. The bombings and killings you see today are in no way Jihad in my opinion. When muslims fight a true Jihad Allah SWT help is gauranteed. So these acts are not Jihad. To fight a true Jihad however the muslims must be the best of muslims as well. Good muslims are counter-balanced by bad muslims and in such a scenario we are very unlikely to succeed in a Jihad. So it is not a failed concept because it really is not a Jihad.

I think if you read history you will realize when the Tartars totally annihilated the muslims empire it was dawah that spread Islam again not the sword. The non-muslim historians of that time said Islam will never rise again, it did though not through sword as many say. We are in a similar situation today. Islam will rise again, not through sword (i.e. bombings, killings etc) but through muslims practicing it properly and dawah. Inshallah I hope we live to see the rise of it again.

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I wish U all the best honestly, coz sense of hatred that I see all around me between communities really worries me. I often get depressed when I think that what kind of society we are leaving behind for our coming generations to live in.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Mashallah! If you read the verse you will see the definition of a muslim embedded into it. Use it as a yardstick and see how many muslims of today stack up against it. The same can be said for followers of other religions, e.g. Christians, Jews and Hindus. All of them a very far from what their scriptures talk about.

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Ya brother, defination of a muslim is very clear, thanks to the verse in question. Using the same yardstick, yes I agree that we dont find too many followers of any religion, but permit me to add, we dont find too many ppls making too much fuss about any religion accept so called muslims. That makes the biggest diference. For instance, remember the worldwide violent protests agaisnt the Danish cartoons of the holy prophet, remember protests over pope's childish remarks about the holy prophet..........we all know that how much respect and love those protesters have for the holy prophet, still u can see the hypocricy oozing out of their actions.

When few ppls die in Iraq, Afganistan, Palestine, Kashmir etc, which is ofcource tragic always, muslims get agitated, and rightly so. But when over 400,000 muslims are brutally killed in most cold blooded manner, nowhere we see any protest or inflamatory friday sermons, may I dare ask U WHY? WHY? WHY?

I hope U got the answer what is difference when muslims and their other religious counterparts dont practice their religion together.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Not in my opinion. However you are entitled to your opinion. However I sense that you want to say that MUSLIM = BAD PERSON.

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Well I will let U know my views on this subject very soon, Inshallah. But let me add that I know muslims who are best of human beings I can swear. But not good muslims I know for sure.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Nothing surprising. Allah SWT said through the Quran that the true believers will always be in minority. Harm only in a worldy sense, think about those who according to Allah SWT (followers of other religions) will not achieve eternal salvation. Do you believe in Prophets?

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No brother, I only believe in ALLAH, no prophets, no divine book.

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Posted by US Resident
Even peace has limits. You should not get trampled over in your peaceful quest. And you cannot guarantee that Gandhi could have achieved anything without the parallel muslim struggle as well.

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What u mean by parallel muslim struggle brother? will u eleborate?

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Well here is the thing you missed, Allah SWT stated it is easy to understand and also stated it will be understood when read with a clear intention of getting close the Allah SWT, any bias will lead to misinterpretation. I can easily award such a prize to other religious scriptures as well infact other religious scriptures are followed and preached exactly opposite to what the scripture says. Quran is easily understandible, however I think the Arabic argument will be valid if you were in a position where you need to perform Ijtihad or derive legislation from the Quran. And that would be true for anything, even an attorney trying to understand the details of the law as compared to a law abiding citizen. Your argument still is weak.

Btw, what do you believe to be the Word of God. Which scripture do you consider as the untainted word of God?

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Brother ur quote in bolds speaks that muslims themselves read the verses of holy quran with some bias, than who else is to be accused??? I agree with u that other religious scriptures are not followed completely, and U can see the result the society that non-followers have made for themselves in Europian countries. as I had told u earlier that some of my muslim friends living in Europe say that society which holy quran promises can be seen in Europian countries. Will u agree? and what this proves??? Only one thing, any religion can be counter productive if followed.

Brother, I dont believe that any scriptures on face of earth is not word of GOD, all are man written.

[quote]
disagree with your views. If the Quran is stating the Story of Noah PBUH, explain to me how is that a law and how it is to be followed by the verse as a law?

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Brother I agree that these verses which deals with stories are not laws, but U cant put those verses forward while discussing the verses which are clearly orders of ALLAH. And if u want to prove the verses as circumstantial than permit me to say that we have posts in this forum where mulims telling other verses like no compulsion in religion as circumstatial..........using same yardstick, litrally each and every verse which deals with an order of ALLAH can be termed circumstantial and even interest and pork can be justified to consume. I dismiss any such attempt as yet another example of muslim hypocricy.

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Yes, again I say muslims are not doing a good job of preaching what is really in the Quran. No denials on that. However our different views seem to stem from the fact that we look towards religion for entirely different things. I am look to religion to find the truth about Allah SWT. Do you believe in God? If you do then explain why and how?

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Yes IS believe in GOD, and believe very firmly. later part of ur question is not quiet clear to me, plz eleborate what u want me to explain?

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Sir, a muslim has the right to be on truth whether somone likes it or not. This only reinstates we really believe in what we believe in. Perhaps you do not.

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Brother, if a muslim has right, than he must think and grant equal right to other creations of ALLAH too, thats my point. U are free to speculate on my beliefs, I dont mind, coz its ALLAH to decide about our respective beliefs.

Thanks

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

I m waiting for ur next post brother, plz continue.

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

Br. I think you have been very respectful so I do not see any problem continuing. I appreciate your respect for our holy month of Ramadan.

You are not the only one who worries. I do not know whether you are married or not however I am and have Mashallah kids. Tomorrows generation always raises apprehensions and an uncertain future.

:) You know as much hypocricy there may be visible in todays muslims still there is something you will see in a muslims that will never find in any other follower of any other religion. A muslim loves his religion even though he may not be following it properly, they would still be fussing about it because they are not in denial of the truth but rather disobedience. I think this is something that has puzzled non-muslims for centuries and to date. I don't know how to explain it. However your observation is not wrong, its just you lack the feeling one has when you are a muslim. You will not understand this unless you are one no matter how bad you may be.

Your statement is correct and I will not deny it. Our religion teaches us to be soft with each other yet we are not. This is one of the reasons of muslims downfall in the last 2-3 centuries.

To me this shows that their religion never reformed their character and they are not willing to stand up for that they believe in. Not practicing is like abandonment whereas incorrectly practicing is not abandoning it. Followers of other religions have abandoned their religions because they are not finding any benefit in it whereas muslims can always find benefit in their religion, which is why they turn to it rather than abandon it.

Everyone can be a human but it takes a lot of sacrifice and control to go a step forward and be a proper muslim. Being human is the easy way out. Its the extrta effort that carries reward in the hereafter.

Interesting then how did you come up with the concept of Allah SWT?

Lets not debate Sub-continental history since it has little significance for this thread. What I meant was British were facing to opposition fronts Hindus and Muslims instead of one (united Hindu Muslim), it makes it a bit difficult to calculate and control in such a situation.

What about the dark ages of Europe when the Muslim societies were more advanced than the Europeon societies. This makes me realize that religious scripture did not become an impediment then. Its become an impediment when it is not properly followed.

Then where does the concept of divinity come from?

Again I disagree. Circumstantial verses may be treated as laws should a similar situation arise otherwise the wisdom from those verses must be extracted and ingrained into the current situation. Verses that deal with interest and pork are not circumstantial but absolute. Again if you had studied the entire Quran you would see it from my point of view but sitting on the other side of the fence you cannot. As long as you take verses in isolation you cannot grasp what is being said. A lot of the circumstantial verses were revealed during times of battle whereas the absolutes were not. Again like the veses we have been debating about killing non-believers and the one about no compulsion in religion cannot be re-conciled with if both are general. This is where many people (in my opinion) make mistakes, by taking verses in isolated general meaning.

You said you believe in God, my question is why do you believe in God. What makes you believe in God?

Agreed, and we do. Remeber you quoted there is no compulsion in religion. But its our responsibility to convey what we believe is true. You are not obliged to follow it. However if someone fights us for being muslims and tries to deprive us of our religion and belief then we will not be very merciful to them.

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[quote]

Posted by US Resident
You are not the only one who worries. I do not know whether you are married or not however I am and have Mashallah kids. Tomorrows generation always raises apprehensions and an uncertain future.

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Lets pray for their better and safe future.

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:) You know as much hypocricy there may be visible in todays muslims still there is something you will see in a muslims that will never find in any other follower of any other religion. A muslim loves his religion even though he may not be following it properly, they would still be fussing about it because they are not in denial of the truth but rather disobedience. I think this is something that has puzzled non-muslims for centuries and to date. I don't know how to explain it. However your observation is not wrong, its just you lack the feeling one has when you are a muslim. You will not understand this unless you are one no matter how bad you may be.

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Brother burning in hell till eternity is something which brings shivers down my spine occasionally:) , naturally muslims are no exception. So they are bound to be passionate about religion coz they see it as only gateway to paradise and escape from hellfire.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Your statement is correct and I will not deny it. Our religion teaches us to be soft with each other yet we are not. This is one of the reasons of muslims downfall in the last 2-3 centuries.

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Brother U missed my point it seems, what I want to convey to U that its not love and affection for their muslim bretherns which cause anger among muslims, rather its selevtive hatred towards killers which prompt fiery friday sermons and protests. That means, muslims may kill muslims coz they are permitted licence to kill by ALLAH, and no muslim can kill without a proper justification, so its okay.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
To me this shows that their religion never reformed their character and they are not willing to stand up for that they believe in. Not practicing is like abandonment whereas incorrectly practicing is not abandoning it. Followers of other religions have abandoned their religions because they are not finding any benefit in it whereas muslims can always find benefit in their religion, which is why they turn to it rather than abandon it.

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So it means that shariyah is not abandoned by muslims, right? but it may be right for U if it is, for me its abandoning the religion with flavour of grave hypocricy. In my views the only benifit a muslim find in their religion is to enjoy paradise coz they feel that how much bad they can be, but ALLAH will choose them for paradise coz of their sycophancy. And brother, no religion reform the character, litrally no, its on any individual to reform his or her own character. Religion has no role in it according to my views.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Everyone can be a human but it takes a lot of sacrifice and control to go a step forward and be a proper muslim. Being human is the easy way out. Its the extrta effort that carries reward in the hereafter.

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Well brother, I find it too hard to even become a proper human to be very honest. it means that Islam is not meant for me coz I have already admitted to have fallen too short of being a good human even. But rewards hereafter never lure me, and punishment never worries me except sometimes when some of my muslim friend spice up stories of punishment of hellfire in his effort to make me believe in Islam. :) . But as I said that when I m not able to become a proper human being than how come I can even think of becoming a muslim and enjoying gardens of paradise till eternity?

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Interesting then how did you come up with the concept of Allah SWT?

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Well brother, religions are man made is my belief, but it doesnt means that I m not willing to take any lesson from any religion. Every religion has its share of good and bad teachings in it, and I see no problem in accpeting what is good in my views in any religion. I love the message of non violence in Jainism and Sanatan Dharma, I love the message of Tawheed in Islam, I love the message of service to humankind in Christianity. Whats bad in it? but I dont believe in any religion. Only one ALLAH/GOD/BHAGVAN. thats it, like it or not. It gives me a lot of happiness loving my ALLAH.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Then where does the concept of divinity come from?

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I think that I have answered this question already above, every religion teaches about concept of divinity in its own way. And I believe in it. Those who gave this concept to the humankind were among the best of creations of ALLAH, may ALLAH bless them all. But they were normal human beings like us yet somewhat special. definetely not the prophets or messengers, coz I dont think that ALLAH has ever sent any messenger for us.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Again I disagree. Circumstantial verses may be treated as laws should a similar situation arise otherwise the wisdom from those verses must be extracted and ingrained into the current situation. Verses that deal with interest and pork are not circumstantial but absolute. Again if you had studied the entire Quran you would see it from my point of view but sitting on the other side of the fence you cannot. As long as you take verses in isolation you cannot grasp what is being said. A lot of the circumstantial verses were revealed during times of battle whereas the absolutes were not. Again like the veses we have been debating about killing non-believers and the one about no compulsion in religion cannot be re-conciled with if both are general. This is where many people (in my opinion) make mistakes, by taking verses in isolated general mea

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Okay brother, but what I feel that ALLAH did a mistake by assuming that his creations will be able to understand the book easily. What he missed was to be able to judge his creations mentality and fitrah.

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Posted by US Resident
You said you believe in God, my question is why do you believe in God. What makes you believe in God?

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Brother everything around and inside me makes me believe that there is ALMIGHTY ALLAH operating this whole universe. My heart feels the love of ALLAH all the time. There may be around a trillion if not less reasons to believe in ALLAH for me.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Agreed, and we do. Remeber you quoted there is no compulsion in religion. But its our responsibility to convey what we believe is true. You are not obliged to follow it. However if someone fights us for being muslims and tries to deprive us of our religion and belief then we will not be very merciful to them.

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Brother believe me, I have never seen anyone non muslim trying to deprive muslims of their religion, but I can see a whole nation of muslims doing that to non muslims. It speaks volumes of muslim behaviour towards non muslims if U are unbiased enough to understand. But U have to come out of duty towards Ummah concept and embrass duty towards humanity concept for it.

Thanks.

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Re: Conversion back to Hinduism

Inshallah. Aameen.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that muslims have a license to kill by Allah SWT? A muslim who kills another muslim unjustly is a grave sinner. I don't think I got your point though.

On the contrary the Prophet Muhammad SAW stressed the development of character for his companions for the first 10-11 years of his Prophethood. I think my religion has thus far guided me in everything I do. Never felt any hypocrisy anywhere. Actually muslims should be more afraid because other religions talk very little about hellfire as compared paradise. Islam is where everything you do is held accountable. The thing that we muslims feel comfortable about is that we believe in Tawhid, which other religions have blurred. Not believing in Tawhid is the unforgivable sin according to us. The muslim aqidah is exactly was is in our scripture whereas the aqidah in other religions is almost opposite to what their scriptures talk about or in conflict with the scripture itself.

So you have already given up your purpose of life. You can't be a human being and a muslim as long as you believe you can't. If you believe you can Inshallah you will be. Allah SWT guides those who look for his guidance.

I don't think there is any ideology or religion in the world, which says to be peacefully annihilated even in defense. This is a misconception you have about Islam. The muslims who are using violent acts to propagate a message are not muslims. How many of them blow up a resturant and then say this is because you did not believe in Allah SWT or believe in Quran, there message is quite different and always political. Is this not enough to show you that there actions have nothing to do with Islam. Why don't you use the good muslim examples to come close to Islam rather than use the bad apples to run away from it (are you fearful)? I assure you if you love the message of Tawhid in Islam then you are already half way through your journey to becoming a muslim. All the other messages you have stated, I guarantee you that you will find them in Islam as well. Islam does not prohibit you from human service (as you have stated Christianity allows), charity is one of the fundamentals of Islam and what else do you use charity for other than human service. Even a smile is an act of Sadaqah in Islam and you will get rewarded for it. If you think Islam is violent I suggest you read upon the rules of engagement for muslims in a battle and you will find how careful and humanistic the real Islamic principles are, do not use OBL type examples to find Islam. If you want to find Islam look to those who really live it not those who perpetrate it.

Do you think Allah SWT is capable of mistakes?

Then why not believe in the message Allah SWT has conveyed as well. If you believe in Allah SWT then listen to Allah SWT also.

Give me an example where muslims are trying to deprive non-muslims of there religion and if they are then let me quote a Quranic verse, which should settle the dispute:

*006.108 *
And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

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[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Inshallah. Aameen.

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Sum Aameen.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
How did you arrive at the conclusion that muslims have a license to kill by Allah SWT? A muslim who kills another muslim unjustly is a grave sinner. I don't think I got your point though.

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Its not me who have arrived at the conclusion that muslims have a licence to kill by ALLAH. but its most of muslims who think so, otherwise I dont see any reason that muslims who love the Ummah that much that they go gaga on killing of some muslims in any part of the world, shrug it off when so many muslims are getting killed by muslims themselves. And brother, why its so that a muslim who kill another muslim only is a grave sinner? why not muslim who kills non muslims too? is there any difference between a muslim and non muslim? does it hurt anything less to a non muslim as compared to a muslim?

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
On the contrary the Prophet Muhammad SAW stressed the development of character for his companions for the first 10-11 years of his Prophethood. I think my religion has thus far guided me in everything I do. Never felt any hypocrisy anywhere. Actually muslims should be more afraid because other religions talk very little about hellfire as compared paradise. Islam is where everything you do is held accountable. The thing that we muslims feel comfortable about is that we believe in Tawhid, which other religions have blurred. Not believing in Tawhid is the unforgivable sin according to us. The muslim aqidah is exactly was is in our scripture whereas the aqidah in other religions is almost opposite to what their scriptures talk about or in conflict with the scripture itself.

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Brother, I bet that its only muslims who are little concerned about hellfire and are sure of making it to paradise irrespective of their behaviour, I think that verse which deals with shirk is only unforgivable sin is responsible for it. I m not here to defend or advocate any religion as other religions are no better for me, all are man made so bound to have flaws.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
So you have already given up your purpose of life. You can't be a human being and a muslim as long as you believe you can't. If you believe you can Inshallah you will be. Allah SWT guides those who look for his guidance.

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Well brother, I think that I can never believe that purpose of life is only to pray ALLAH. And yes I feel that I m yet to become what a human being should be like. So my first aim is to become a good human being, which I agree I m not. And I m self satisfied in terms of guidence from ALLAH, I think that I have had his guidence, its time that I should follow it.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
I don't think there is any ideology or religion in the world, which says to be peacefully annihilated even in defense. This is a misconception you have about Islam. The muslims who are using violent acts to propagate a message are not muslims. How many of them blow up a resturant and then say this is because you did not believe in Allah SWT or believe in Quran, there message is quite different and always political. Is this not enough to show you that there actions have nothing to do with Islam. Why don't you use the good muslim examples to come close to Islam rather than use the bad apples to run away from it (are you fearful)? I assure you if you love the message of Tawhid in Islam then you are already half way through your journey to becoming a muslim. All the other messages you have stated, I guarantee you that you will find them in Islam as well. Islam does not prohibit you from human service (as you have stated Christianity allows), charity is one of the fundamentals of Islam and what else do you use charity for other than human service. Even a smile is an act of Sadaqah in Islam and you will get rewarded for it. If you think Islam is violent I suggest you read upon the rules of engagement for muslims in a battle and you will find how careful and humanistic the real Islamic principles are, do not use OBL type examples to find Islam. If you want to find Islam look to those who really live it not those who perpetrate it.

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Well brother, I told U that I have seen muslims who I can term as best of human beings, but they are not good muslim I can bet my last penny on it. So far I m yet to see any good muslim who have done extraordinary service to humankind and whom I can take my inspiration from. If u can show me some, U are most welcome. But plz dont go too back in history. Rather give me example of true muslims of today's period. I reject any idea which treat any human beings as unequal, and Islam does that. Islam doesnt gives equal rights to a non muslims. A muslim is liable to death sentence if he kills a muslim, but he can walk away free after paying few bucks if he kills a non muslim, its most inhuman in my views. Now U can advocate this inhuman practice and give me reasons for it, but I dont think that I m ready to digest any. Regarding zakat, I will talk to U about it later on.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Do you think Allah SWT is capable of mistakes?

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No way brother, I cant think that, thats why I dont believe that holy quran or any other scripture in the world are words of ALLAH.

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Posted by US Resident
Then why not believe in the message Allah SWT has conveyed as well. If you believe in Allah SWT then listen to Allah SWT also.

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Again matter of belief brother, coz I dont believe that there is any message of ALLAH.

[quote]

Posted by US Resident
Give me an example where muslims are trying to deprive non-muslims of there religion and if they are then let me quote a Quranic verse, which should settle the dispute:

*006.108 *
And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

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Brother I have given U example of the only Islamic country present today on the world map, S. Arabia again, and maybe their scholers feel that the verse of holy quran U have quoted is circumstantial and therefore not applicable in the holy land of their country. World famous scholer on Islam (Dr. Zakir Naik) has justified their act of depriving non muslims of their religious practice. what else remains? Brother, holy quran is open for misinterpretation, so its irrelevant quoting any verse to muslims. As I told U earlier, we have posts of true muslims in this forum which declares verse of no compulsion in religion as circumstantial. So muslims are free to beleve that there can be compulsion in religion, and the only Islamic state present is doing that. End of story.

Thanks

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I don't think most muslims think they have a license to kill other muslims. This is a stereotyped statement, yes there is a very small minority causing these problems and it is especially rampant in Pakistan, no doubt. If most muslims were of this line of thought half the world population would be extinct by now. I would be interested where you found that it is OK for a muslim to kill a non-muslim and not be considered a sin, in fact just compensate it with blood-money. Sounds like poor non-muslims governments would have taken advantage of this and put some non-muslims up for target practice and make a profit. Where in the world did you get this from?

Wonder why it is the Quran that speaks the most about hellfire compared to other religious scriptures if muslims are but a little concerned with it. Can you prove Quran is man-made? Or is this presumptuous in your argument?

I think worship is the more appropriate word that PRAY here, worship has a much broader meaning in Islam than prayer. We were created to worship Allah SWT. Prayer is one act of worship.

So they are bad muslims but they from your statement the fact is that they are MUSLIM, which is the difference maker.

Humans are not unequal but what they believe about Allah SWT is what makes them unequal in his eyes. For me I will never hate you as a human being even if you belong to a different faith however I may not like your actions or beliefs. Abdus Satar Edhi is an example from our own Subcontinent. Now I'm sure their is pun on him somehwere but then there is about everyone.

Please prove otherwise.

And I have stated before I think they have gone overboard with a few things.

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Brother, so is it wrong that in an islamic rule, non muslms are supposed to live as second class citizens? Do u deny that if a muslim kill a non muslim in an islamic state than he wont be sentenced to death but he can walk away free after paying blood money?

I have nevre heard about Abdus Sattar Edhi, can u give me any link so that i can know about him?

We will continue out debate regarding holy quran aft er Ramadan is over, Inshallah.

And regarding ur comments about Saudi's ill treatement of followers of other religion is concerned, I respect ur views, but perhaps U dont know as much Islam as Dr. Zakir Naik, who has justified their action in the light of islamic principals. I m bound to believe that islamically they are right for their intolrance for another religions.

Thanks

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A muslim can walk away after paying blood money even if he killed another muslim. However this optoin is of the plaintiffs choice. They can go eye for an eye. I asked for evidence where this law comes from?

Just google.

Inshallah.

See again you are marring the lines between intolerence, respect and justice. I think I'll have to go back and re-read what you had posted earlier. I'll comment on it again after re-reading it.

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Brother I know that in Islamic laws even a muslim can walk away after paying blood money if demanded by plaintiffs. But he can be sentenced to death too. while if one muslim kills a non-muslim than there is no death sentence for him and he is only required to pay blood money to plaintiffs. Is this true or not? I m sorry that I cant to to any Islamic scholer to clarify this ruling, but I m sure that U can help me out. Plz let me know that is it true or not?

Thanks

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I will check on this.

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I read through the whole Book of "Blood money" from Sahih Bukhari and could not find any such thing. In fact all the hadiths contradicted such a thing. Here are some of them:

Hadeeth No. **6476 - **Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
The Prophet said, "Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling)."

Hadeeth No. *6429 *- Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "A faithful believer remains at liberty regarding his religion unless he kills somebody unlawfully."

Hadeeth No. *6437 *- Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "The biggest of Al-Kaba'ir (the great sins) are (1) to join others as partners in worship with Allah, (2) to murder a human being, (3) to be undutiful to one's parents (4) and to make a false statement," or said, "to give a false witness."

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Actually, I'll vouch for what justahumane said.
He is correct.

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Hmm! Br. can you point me in the right direction here.

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The last line in these two Ahadith is what is of importance here.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.283
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/083.sbt.html#009.083.050

LARKIAN..DIL..DIMAAGH