Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
If you marry an Indian, your kids will be conflicted on who to support when an India v. Pakistan cricket match happens.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
Ooo interesting.
Is shedding the word you want to go with?
Just implies that they let go of their parents' cultures and the values they learned from those cultures.
So would their future generations only look ethnic but adapt to the home country's lifestyle completely?
I'm not opposing or agreeing with your opinion, just asking for clarification.
Shedding is exactly the word I would use. I was once following a girl's online blog who called herself half muslim/half Catholic. She was confused, her parents were confused so it was easier to just go with what her friends were. Forget mixed kids even those with full on desi parents kind of opt out of desi cultures.
The Spanish speaking children's mother would prompt them to say thank you/good bye in spanish. The father was speaking to them in English. They might in the future go off in search of a different identity but they can't unlearn the language so that aspect of south American culture will remain with them because of their mother.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
do you know of many Pakistani-Indian couples in Lahore? And how does one go about finding an Asher-type guy for a friend? I mean where does such a person exist in real life/online? I accepted this challenge without realising what it means but I am optimistic
yup, the lady was American and she met the Pakistani relative in her university. They fell in love, she converted and moved to Pakistan. I knew she wasn't from my family (because we all look the same and she doesn't) but I didn't know she was Indian until a few years back. If there was a scandal I missed it because I didn't exist.
I haven't seen humsafar so don't have a clue what the Asher type guys are like :)
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
I think that people in mixed cultural, mixed faith marriages have to work double/triple as hard than those within the same religion, culture. If you look at things from a Muslim or Pakistani standpoint then these marriages are outside the norm. For Pakistani Muslim women, especially so.
That being said, you are marrying the person that you will be with for the rest of your life. Personally, I could not never think of marrying a girl outside my faith, I did marry someone outside my culture though. My family, friends, acceptance and approval was really important to me, so I made sure that everyone was on board. There will be many people who will regret making choices of their youth, once they get older -- I'm talking 30-40 years from now. This not only applies to intercultural and interfaith marriages but also love marriages (in the same culture) as well.
In the end, its your life and your happiness.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
^Double or triple as hard? Not everybody's absolute priority is maintaining their culture or language so what exactly would be so hard?
As for 'regretting' it this is what elders used to say when the world was so different and we weren't so interconnected.. Mixed marriages were considered 'strange' and so were love marriages.. Not sure where you're getting the idea that people will regret having love marriages either.. Yes, some people might regret it but you could say the same about those in arranged marriages as well..
There are plenty of people in love and mixed marriages in our generation which have worked out just fine.. Mixed marriages probably were harder back then because there was less contact and communication between different countries and cultures.. In the old days it was less common to share a 'common' language like English as well so elders and extended family were more likely to be feel left out and unable to communicate.. Imo it was misunderstandings and distrust in these situations which tended to put pressure on mixed marriages, as well as the social stigma..
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
^Double or triple as hard? Not everybody's absolute priority is maintaining their culture or language so what exactly would be so hard?
As I mentioned earlier, the presupposition is that you actually *want *to maintain culture, language, or religion. If you don't, there is no problem with interfaith or intercultural marriages.
Moreover (this is not an attack towards you personally), if you don't care about culture, language, or religion, then why come to a Pakistani (both by birth and/or heritage) message board/affinity group and complain about "acceptance" if you don't care for culture/language/religion? Sounds pretty contradictory to me.
*As for 'regretting' it this is what elders used to say when the world was so different and we weren't so interconnected.. Mixed marriages were considered 'strange' and so were love marriages.. Not sure where you're getting the idea that people will regret having love marriages either.. Yes, some people might regret it but you could say the same about those in arranged marriages as well.. *
People tend to start valuing their religion, culture more so later on in life. People start caring more about legacies and passing things to their children as they get older/their children start to get older. This manifests people in different ways, yet is commonplace. Interconnectedness of the world is less relevant when you realize that the time has passed to impart values/beliefs onto your kids after they have gone away to college/living in a different city.
There are plenty of people in love and mixed marriages in our generation which have worked out just fine.. Mixed marriages probably were harder back then because there was less contact and communication between different countries and cultures.. In the old days it was less common to share a 'common' language like English as well so elders and extended family were more likely to be feel left out and unable to communicate.. Imo it was misunderstandings and distrust in these situations which tended to put pressure on mixed marriages, as well as the social stigma..
That's great. I doubt that you and I will be able to check in 30 years or so, however you will find that things will be very different by then. If you think that religiosity, tribalism will go away then sadly that will not be the case. These ethnic and religious cleavages will intensify in the future (particularly in the West). This is the latest round of globalization and history repeats itself (Anglo-Indians, Burghurs).
The fact remains that the vast majority of Pakistanis and Muslims will marry within their culture, religion -- therefore, any deviations (accepted or not) represent a miniscule population of douglas.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
I'm in a mixed faith and mixed religion marriage. Was it hard initially? Sure, but a lot of it had to do with the fear of the unknown as far as both sets of parents were concerned. It took a few chai sessions and meetings before both parties realized they had raised sensible stable kids and were from good families and then it was all good!
Our wedding was small but lovely - everyone close to us came and because both sets of parents were on board, no one in the extended family made it an issue either. Plus, nearly all of my moms cousins have married non desi's so the concept wasn't alien to us. My hubby has blended in seamlessly- the families get along well and respect the differences between each side- and those that were demanding change have backed off.
We have a son and he will be taught what it means to be a Muslim and a practicing one at that. For him to have a relationship with God is super important to me and I do think- and have seen firsthand- that moms have more influence as regards to culture, religion and language- than dads do. After all, we spend more time with the kids. Right now, we are planning on hosting a big Eid get together for our friends and he's really excited and looking forward to the decorations and gifts- he's only 3 so the religion bit being slowly introduced but because Christmas tends to be such a big deal for his dadiyaal, this year on I feel like Eid needs to step up it's game too.
Language wise, I tend to only speak to mine in Urdu and hubby has picked up the language more or less because of that too. The kid responds in half English/half Urdu. I do wish hubby spoke his language as well but he's not super confident and so it hasn't happened. They communicate in English.
It really comes down to what your priorities as a parent are- not as a Muslim parent or desi parent or gora parent but a parent, period. What is important for you to pass on to the next generation? For me, religion is first and culture is second. Primarily though, I want him to have a strong sense of identity in his background and know that being mixed is no cause for confusion - you are your own person in the end- and in this time, are by no means unusual or out of place because your parents don't share a culture so don't bother rebelling or acting out, kid ;)
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
I think there should be no problem with that.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
While I think most Muslims are empathetic to other minoritis in the West (ie Jews, Hispanics, blacks), how respective rae others of our culture and religion in the West? The truth is most Jews marry outside their faith and most of their kids do not self-identify as Jewish. Even as a traditional/cultural Muslim, I find this to be a very hard point to swallow. It's important to have the self-doubt of a minority and to challenge the popular narrative. I want my kids to realize how hard it is to have a name like Muhammad and get where many Muslim Americans have. That's what being a Muslim american means to me. Challenging tradition.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
i had never realized how many muslims were finding inter faith marriages acceptable.
Out of curiousity, i had one question?
How will you ensure your kids follow te right path of Islam (for those who choose to transfer Islam as a religion to their kids) ..would you not be scared of our kids asking yu questions regarding your inter-faith marriage the day they have enough knowledge about the right codes of muslim marriages?
ps/i am not attacking, i want to know such issues will be dealt with?
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
How will you ensure your kids follow te right path of Islam (for those who choose to transfer Islam as a religion to their kids) ..would you not be scared of our kids asking yu questions regarding your inter-faith marriage the day they have enough knowledge about the right codes of muslim marriages?
I don't think people who are 'scared' of such things would enter interfaith marriages in the first place.. Your wording also seems to be implying that interfaith marriages are wrong even tho marriages are allowed between Muslims and some non-Muslims..
(Mine isn't interfaith btw.. Maybe someone who is in one can answer more specifically)
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
from the knowledge i have about Islam, interfaith marriage is acceptable only with those who believe in One and Only God. Practising Jews and Christians are ok to marry as these two monotheist religions are foundation to Islam and if followed religiously ,they are no way different than Islam as far as the basics are concerned.
Now personally I can understand a non practising muslim marry into interfaith wedlock. However my question was more targeted at those who are more inclined on the Deen side and chose to marry a Jew or a Christian...wouldnt it be hard to show the kids your way?Your religion? what if they decide to follow the other religion and later on become a non believer ... ie/ not beleiving in church or cynagogues or even ignoring kosher food or careme fasts
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
^ what guarantee do you have that your kids from a desi/muslim background will choose to follow Islam? as far as i can tell, from my own personal experiences, there is none. kids eventually grow up to be adults with minds of their own. they form their own thoughts and opinions and to me, simply being born into a muslim household isn't enough to say you ARE a muslim. you still have to believe, you still have to practice, you still need to learn the rites and rituals and actually DO them to get that golden ticket into Heaven. in that respect, teaching your child about Islam is the same regardless of the family you are born into.
the way i see it is as a parent you've got a tough job ahead of you in any case, and you need to recognize that sooner or later your kids will make their own choices in life. you do your best by them and pray they are given Hidayat, but beyond that what are you gonna do? holding on to expectations based on the status quo just leads to trouble i think. you've gotta be more proactive than that!
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
It would be absolutely insane for you not to marry another Pakistani. That's like leaving a perfectly good piece of cake out in the rain for the dogs to devour. No in all seriousness, if she can't laugh at Umar Shareef's jokes, she's not for you mate.
The bold part sounds awfully weird. Hajji sahab ki begum in skimpy bikinis 
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Its ok. He muat be of a view sub ne apni apni qabr may jana hai..might not know that immediate mehrams will be answerable for their women as well.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
What to do if she refused to listen to him? Isn't the burden on her then?
I would distance myself as a last resort than beat that person up.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
Its ok. He muat be of a view sub ne apni apni qabr may jana hai..might not know that immediate mehrams will be answerable for their women as well.
Bella keeps using all sorts of justifications and anecdotes no statistics or evidence to reinforce her decision to marry a non-Muslim. I still don't understand what someones elses actions have to do with your faith and relationship with God, community, etc. Non sensical and emotional appeal. No contribution to an argument.
Re: Consequences of a mixed faith/cultural marriage
Bella keeps using all sorts of justifications and anecdotes no statistics or evidence to reinforce her decision to marry a non-Muslim. I still don't understand what someones elses actions have to do with your faith and relationship with God, community, etc. Non sensical and emotional appeal. No contribution to an argument.
lol I dont need to justify anything here, especially not my marriage. plenty of other people here are also in inter faith marriages and are happily married. Secondly, ofcourse I am giving personal experience and example of what I have seen! next time you try to attack, at least pay attention to the topic being discussed.