Re: Consensus & The Dam
What does balochistan has to do with the issue?
I never got that!
Re: Consensus & The Dam
Here is another oxymoron. Oh Khan Ji, did you try to read what you just said?
If no group (barring the locals) is opposed to the dam, and the Feds want to build it. Then what is your gripe?
Broken promises for free lunch? Royalties for Khans? Big Pajero and AK47 for their goons, yeah my friend there have been many broken promises. However whipping up tribal hysteria is not going to help it at all. Haven’t you seen what Afghan Punstoons have done to their country? Blaming Punjab or military is simply a cop out.
Pushtoon cities have benefited more or less the same way as other urban areas of the country. Pushtoon countryside is as poor as the Punjabi hinterlands. Instead of providing more water and power, the tribalism is now ready to emulate their leaders a la Fara Aideed of Somalia.
The old tribal mantra was that everything belongs to my chief. We now have people who want to use the same tribalism for denying development and prosperity to the country.
Bunch of $hitty stuff gets heaped on every project, and KBD will surely bring death and destruction to the whole planet. Yeah! This is what the Tribals are saying.
Care to explain how much of NWFP will become barren land. For crying out loud, the dam sits on the southern border and downstream from the major agri centers of NWFP.
Balochistan is mostly barren and dry. What percentage of more dry land you think will be added to Balochi agri lands?
Sindh, may have a point OK! However most of the studies done so far do not support the theory of desertification of the Sindh.
Dam be damned. Kabuli Kommies will oppose it just for one reason. To whip up the ethnic hatred for and against their favorite tribe. Yeah sure this is the way to go in 21st century. No one study has been quoted in this thread. Just bunch of bull against one state or the other.
The bottom line is simple. Keep the $hite going in the tribal areas of Pakistan so nothing could be accomplished. Kidnap and kill Chinese engineers so they won’t work to build roads and dams. Bring more Ben la-Deens and rent them your living rooms, make money, and smoke Hukkah. That’s the life in Tribal heaven.
Wah bhai wah. Living in London sure makes it easy to diss Pakistan.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
no anti I am not talking about Mushs friends..I am talking about the average person in Dera Bugti without gas or the dispossessed tarbela dam affectees .. these things maybe unimportant to you and you may use the feudal excuse as a reason those people are deprived..but rest assured while exploitative local “rulers” are an issue..an exploitative federal government is an equal and possibly larger reason for those peoples suffering.
Anti i did not use the word Punjab or military once in my post..Musharraf said that..and if anyone else had said that..he would be attacked within a second for being a racist or a traitor..
Yes and the fed gov mantra is everything belongs to everyone accept the locals (unless the locals have friends in high places)
well studies aren’t important according to Mush..I mean if it was proven otherwise and construction stopped.. the government would be toppled..so much for consensus that only the Armed forces can provide…
Re: Consensus & The Dam
It is, and that is something that the so-called opponents don’t even mention.
The idea of the Kalabagh dam has been put forward for more than 30 years, and in that time we have had rulers from Balochistan, Sindh, NWFP and Punjab, none of who have opposed the dam while they have been in power. What they may say while they are out of power is just politics, as most of this so-called opposition is.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
huh?what country u watching? the current Sindh,NWFP, and Balochistan assemblies have all passed motions condemning the KBD. This of course includes the ruling parties in power, and their opposition to the KBD has been explicit, in power or not.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
^
My post said that no rulers from Balochistan, Sindh, NWFP and Punjab, have ever opposed the dam when they have been in power. Even Benazir never opposed it during her two stints in power, and the rumours are that she will support it if allowed back to Pakistan and some sort of political role.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
Of course BB was against it! No politician outside of Punjab would support it
Even Mush’s favourites MQM are against it, and you can’t say they are not in power
The current Sindh CM, appointed by Mush is also publicly against it, so frankly I’m not sure where you get you news from
Re: Consensus & The Dam
^
No, Benazir did not oppose the Kalabagh Dam whilst she was in power, and she will support it, if allowed to play a role in Pakistan politics again. All others will fall into line at the appropriate time as well.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
Like I said, i just don’t know where you get your news from,PPP have always opposed it. Being based in Sindh, this is common sense.
As mentioned last week in Dawn:
http://www.dawn.com/2005/12/09/local9.htm
She noted that three assemblies had voted against the construction of the Kalabagh dam, and expressed the hope that people of Punjab, who had given sacrifices for Pakistan, would not like to endanger the federation by building the dam already rejected by the three other federating units.
She said that PPP opposed construction of the Kalabagh dam on the grounds that first, it was against the federal principle, therefore illegal; second it would not resolve the water issue; and third it would add to the debt burden of the country, crushing the common people under its weight.
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Re: Consensus & The Dam
^
As I said when she was in power, she did not oppose it. Saying something when out of power is mere politics. Also, as I said she would support it if allowed a say in power again
Re: Consensus & The Dam
Forgive me guys for pointing this out, but this stuff like “He said, she said…” will not get us anywhere.
BB or anyother politician on the scene has serious credibility problems. Had these politikos been honest even 5% of the time, people would be in streets right now demanding an end to military government. So please let us not use these 2-aana, tonga-full supporter carrying politicians.
Coming back to the topic, Feds must address whatever grievances there may be from different pressure groups. These groups may be right or wrong, as long as these pressure groups exist, bribes must be doled out.
Bugti and other clans are for sale, not too different from their war-lord cousins across the border. At any time they would sell their “services” to the highest bidder. Obviously the best possible way out is that Islamabad offers that highest bid. That way things remain within the family. However in the event Islamabad falters, Bugti or any other politicians would not have any qualms about going to Ruskies or Bharatis.
**
So my view is pay the damn dollars and build the dam, or gas fields, or whatever infrastructure that needs to be built.**
However one negative aspect about paying bribes to Bugti or other clans is very obvious, their people become utterly dependent on Federal handouts. This aspect robs these men from looking for regular jobs and pursuing education.
There are bunch of kabuli kommies who cry hoarse that Bugti or Sindhi or FATA people are not being treated well. I ask these Kommie-sympathizers just one thing. Show me one thing these big clansmen like Bugti have done to bring schools and colleges to their people?
How many acres of his own land Bugti is willing to give to LUMS, AKU, or IBA for setting up software houses in their area. Show me once that Bugti and other clansmen are truly fighting for the development of their people. I am waiting for the moment when Bugti uses his “own” money to pay salaries for the teachers in these high tech schools.
The bottom line is simple. Taxpayers are willing to build the infrastructure like dams, roads, and stuff. These pathetic clansmen and their leftie-sympathizers want to force the Feds for dole outs before things can be built in their “own” areas.
**
Pathetic truly pathetic.
While China builds brand new mega cities and industrial centers like Guang Zhou,
While Bharatis spend big amounts on infrastructure,
We have these retards who would oppose any development be that their own house.**
Best regards
Re: Consensus & The Dam
You posted an article by some commentator,anyone could write that. and indeed many people write various things. PPP and BB, or any party in Sindh have never supported KBD, in or out power. TO support KBD is political suicide in Sindh.
Anti-Again, this is not simply a dam, there are genuine problems that will be caused in Sindh,NWFP,etc if the damn is built. The damn will benefit Punjab only.
Building the dam will not take Pak forward, will simply speed its break up.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
What problems?
Discuss…
Re: Consensus & The Dam
billy your so silly, naaive, misinformed. the ANP has always said they will oopose KBD! in power or out of power!! PPP will never in their life support KBD. i dont think the english newspapers owuld have archives from that time online. but im willing to bet n e thing that ppp never supported KBD because if they ever uttered a sentence even implicating support, they will be wiped out in sindh!
Re: Consensus & The Dam
I would be interested to see any statement by her, dead against the dam when she was PM, and other non-Punjab/Punjabi leaders who have ruled Pakistan in the last three decades. After Musharraf seized power in 1999 Benazir supported him, thinking she might have got a chance at the Premiership again, but after that hope foundered she started opposing him. Similarly if she and her party are allowed some sort of power in Pakistan again, she will support Musharraf, the KBD and other things as well. It’s all politics, and not much more.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
Well, I don't know about Benazir or what she is up to, but I do know that majority of people in Sindh are against the Dam.
Pakistan Army's choice is simple: Kalabagh Dam or Sindh. Can't have both.
Reason: Sindh's water cannot be trusted in the hands of a historically anti-Sindh and anti-Mohajir federal governemnt.
Dictators like Musharraf simply cannot understand why Sindh would not trust the government on such an important resource. Explaining to them is pointless.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
WHat can lazy a$$ sindhi maarus do if the government decides to build KBD?
Due to their inept and lazy bumness, they lost in the eighties!!!
Re: Consensus & The Dam
PPP is an expert in deception!
Re: Consensus & The Dam
No need for racism.
Anyway, MQM and urban Sindh can do a lot and that’s what matters.
Re: Consensus & The Dam
Are you a karachiite or a rural sindhi?
Remember, sindhis and mouhajirs don’t have the best of relations! :halo: